<p>Reliable and bus? In the same sentence without a ‘not’? LOL.</p>
<p>Thanks g0ld3n, really appreciated. Maybe you should take a class in manners. :)</p>
<p>I didn’t argue it’s a type of tax - I said it’s “like” a tax in that we all pay for it even though we all might not use it. That’s all I said there.</p>
<p>It doesn’t force students to pay a “fine.” It’s not a fine. It’s a part of your tuition. And yes, it does inconvenience the student who would have preferred to have driven. That’s the point. To encourage them to make use of their pass that they are paying for already. You see strategies like this everywhere, it’s nothing new.</p>
<p>I never - not once - said that the bus pass should be mandatory BECAUSE it is so inexpensive. I said it IS inexpensive, and that this is part of the reason why the ASUC added it to the tuition. It is a great deal for students, and it provides all students with the option to use public transportation for no additional cost. The benefits of that outweighed the very slight increase in tuition. THAT is what I said. That seems pretty logical to me.</p>
<p>You CAN use it more if you “feel bad about having it,” that’s one way to get your full money’s worth…Once again, seems pretty logical to me.</p>
<p>And finally, it DOES discourage driving. This is part of the reason why Berkeley went into this partnership with the city of Berkeley in the first place. Berkeley has a real parking problem, and the free AC Transit pass is one way to encourage students not to bring their cars to Berkeley. Again, completely logical.</p>
<p>Not sure what you’re on about - my arguments make sense to me, and they obviously made sense to the ASUC, along with the University as well…</p>
<p>I, for one, would certainly worry about stuff that “obviously makes sense” to the ASUC.</p>
<p>Cool. Go vote, then. No need to be so pessimistic.</p>
<p>UC Berkeley should give its students the option of choosing whether or not to pay for the sticker depending on if the student needs it.</p>
<p>In my case, I commute from Oakland EVERY single day and the pass SAVES me a lot of money. AC Transit charges $80 a MONTH for non-uc berkeley students. So, I would have to pay around $400 a semester to take the bus. Oh and to go to San Francisco, it costs $ one way, and the card saves us that money. So, as you guys can see the class pass is definitely a good deal.</p>
<p>But as I said before, students should have the option of whether or not to pay for the pass.</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents</p>
<p>Silvern:</p>
<p>One of the great and continuing failings of Democracy (“go vote”) is that the many, many have-nots will always vote to take money from the many fewer haves. Some might call this “fairness.” Other might call it theft. If all it takes in our society is a well organized mob to stuff the ballot box to take stuff from other people . . . well, we are kind of there already.</p>
<p>this is like someone complaining that their taxes go to a service that they don’t use. </p>
<p>i mean, i’m not a k-12 student and i don’t have any kids, so i should be *****ing that my taxes go to pay for that, right? </p>
<p>your fees go to plenty of other services that you may or may not be using (for example, our gym memberships aren’t actually $10. you pay $10 to enter the gym, but in reality $100+ of your tuition goes towards paying for your gym membership/facilities/etc). your choice not to use them is just that - a choice.</p>
<p>@placido240</p>
<p>Neat!</p>
<p>@abutler:</p>
<p>As much as the fact that not everyone uses a service does not mean it should never be tax-funded or tuition-funded or whatever, it even more does not mean that it should be funded and that nobody can question it.
The lack of general utility of a service would be an argument against having it, not for it, even if it’s not an overwhelming one.</p>
<p>Silvern, I like how you clicked on the related thread I linked in the OP, reiterated their arguments, and claimed them as your own. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Have you ever taken an introductory economics class? Not even…you don’t even need a class to see the flaw in your argument, which I’ve attempted and apparently failed to help you realize. I’m sorry. </p>
<p>Fully realizing this is unrelated to our topic, may I ask what your major is?</p>
<p>ok. well you guys have fun arguing about this. You don’t bring it up here, you bring it up to the governing body.</p>
<p>I on the other hand use the bus.</p>
<p>I love my class pass. I probably use like… $300’s worth of bus fares a semester without it so this is quite a bargain.</p>
<p>I am very aware that there are people who use the bus pass–I am not advocating that it be abolished, but rather that we are given a choice to purchase it or not.</p>
<p>^I agree. The argument at hand is that the transit fee should be optional, not that it shouldn’t exist. Several people seem to be misinterpreting this.</p>
<p>And the arguments stating why it’s mandatory are unreasonable. It’s not for promotion. It’s not like a tax. The fee isn’t “negligible”. And finally, it hardly discourages driving.
Student-driving is more deterred by parking and gas fees than anything else. If the transit fee was made optional, I doubt many would stop taking the buses and start driving as their mode of commuting. I can’t think of a situation where a person states: “OMG! I don’t have to pay the fee! Therefore, I can use my car as my main mode of transportation, spending several hundred per semester!”.
Rather, it’s more like those who need the pass would continue paying for it and those who don’t simply won’t. Why would student driving increase?</p>
<p>I agree 187 that all the arguments in this thread against the optionality of the bus pass are completely fallacious and ludicrous. Not to mention a complete red herring. </p>
<p>The only thing this thread has done for me is that it has made me realize that next year Berkeley can’t nearly be as impossible and hard as I was making it out to be if there are people like Silvern in my classes with similar analytical skills.</p>
<p>I love the class pass. I can’t imagine not using it. But whats up with the P line being so screwy lately?</p>
<p>jeez. If you guys spend this much time arguing about this, then I suppose your time is not worth much then. And, if you think the bus pass is too much, go do something about it. Stop complaining and start doing.</p>
<p>We all come from different viewpoints, and I have to say: I strongly disagree with you on the bus pass.</p>
<p>All of our social lives have been improved because of the bus pass. It is safe to assume that most students will have bus pases, so when some place is just a little too far to walk, it’s really easy to proposition to everyone and just take the bus. If there were no bus pass, it’d be different.</p>
<p>The bus pass encourages increased class attendance and more participation in both on-campus and off-campus extracurriculars. Then, you have to remember about what the bus means to those who aren’t fortunate enough to have the ability to walk.</p>
<p>On the same vein, I can say this: why am I paying the same four-figure amount for in-state tuition for my 12 units as someone who is taking 19 units? Less professors educate me, and I have less time in class. Or, why do parts of my fees go to the libraries when I just study in my room all the time?</p>
<p>I’m sorry if you don’t like the $60 fee, but the truth is, the majority of the student population does. Go Student Action! :)</p>
<p>To OP:
Since the cost of the bus pass is included in the student budget, those receiving financial aid will see their grants reduced if the bus pass was not mandatory. In other words, no extra groceries for you.</p>
<p>This is a classic case of robbing peter to pay paul, which is the principle on which all financial aid schemes are based. Ever notice every time UC increases the fees by X, 0.4X goes back to financial aid?</p>
<p>If you are not a full paying customer, there is no reason to be upset; and if you are paying full price, then $69 is peanut compared to $20k. Ergo, all these squabbles are pointless.</p>
<p>@icesplendor and @g0ld3n, I don’t understand why you guys feel the need to insult me rather than simply discuss the issue at hand. I haven’t once said anything negative about anyone else in this thread, and yet you guys feel the need to continue insulting me. I don’t appreciate it. I made some arguments in favor of including the AC Transit bus pass in tuition. They’re fairly basic arguments that you should be able to understand. You can go reread them if you want, I’m done here.</p>
<p>@icesplendor, I didn’t read the previous thread you’re referring to until you mentioned that I “copied their arguments” in your post. But since you are so convinced that this is not the case and that I am lying right now, my telling you this is probably meaningless. And I don’t see what the heck my major has to do with any of this, so I won’t tell you. Drop the condescending act. We’re discussing AC Transit bus passes on a casual online message board. Why don’t you respond and discuss instead of talking about what breadth requirements I should take. It’s pretty immature of you. Thanks.</p>
<p>And for the record, excelblue makes some good points. :)</p>