So what if you don't take the AP test?

<p>AP Languages are really, really difficult, especially if you are taking a full course-load. Getting a 3 is nothing to be ashamed of.</p>

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I don't think everyone's fortunate enough to go to a school where all the teachers actually teach. I taught myself AP chem and managed to get a 4, but there are plenty of people who could be 4 material who failed because we have totally incompetent science teachers at my school.

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<p>I agree with randomperson actually. Some people teach themselves APs and do fine on them. Randomperson, for example, self-taught 8 APs (his school offered the other 7 that he took), and he got 5's on all of them. This is what Harvard wants, not someone who takes an AP class and still can't get a 3...</p>

<p>Seriously, to get a 3 or lower on several tests with no other scores of 4s and 5s, just shows that the person is not smart enough to cope with college work. All you have to do is read the goddamn prepbooks if your teacher sucks, at least to pull off a 4. One or two freak 3s with 4 or more 4s and 5s might not look too bad, but seriously, there is not much of an excuse to being lazy and not going over a prep book.</p>

<p>I took 4 APs last year and got 4s on Calc AB, Stats and Lit - all classes taught in school. I got a 5 in Physics B, self-studied. Yes - it does show that the teaching quality might have impacted my scores in other classes, but the AP curve is so generous that to get lower than a 4 doesnt reflect well on the student.</p>

<p>Well, I am gonna get a 5 or at least a 4 on every other test. (6 others) its just physics is killing me. I am just lazy I guess, instead of reteaching myself physics every night, I'd rather just study some other class for a greater benefit. Still, I just being pessimistic, I think I can manage a 3 at least on the test. I was just nervous about dropping an additional $80 for a class I'm not completely confident in.</p>

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This is what Harvard wants, not someone who takes an AP class and still can't get a 3...

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Harvard has plenty of students who had a 3 on an AP exam, I'm sure.
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Seriously, to get a 3 or lower on several tests with no other scores of 4s and 5s, just shows that the person is not smart enough to cope with college work.

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Might I remind you of the thousands of colleges in the US alone filled with thousands of successful students who could never have scored fours or fives on AP exams while in high school?</p>

<p>I think that poster meant for top colleges like HYPMS. Still, I agree they are acting a bit cocky for my tastes, but I guess I want the truth and not something that will make me feel good. Still hopefully they don't sound like that in real life.</p>

<p>I realize the poster probably meant that, but the academic elitism was getting on my nerves.</p>

<p>I know a lot of very successful people, in all facets of life, who would never have been able to score a four or five on an AP in high school.</p>

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I know a lot of very successful people, in all facets of life, who would never have been able to score a four or five on an AP in high school.

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Sure. But we're not talking about AP tests as the sole gatekeepers for lifelong success - we're just looking at them in the context of Harvard admissions. </p>

<p>I expect that there are probably quite a few students with 3s at Harvard, but I'd wager that almost all of these students either 1) had one or two 3s but an otherwise extraordinarily compelling academic record, or 2) Some extremely attractive "hook," be it status as an under-represented minority, recruited athlete, national-caliber talent in an extracurriular pursuit, or something else equally impressive.</p>

<p>What I want to say is that Shark_bite, who doesn't fit 1) or 2), doesn't have a choice between not taking the test and taking it but scoring badly. If he wants to get into Harvard, he'll need to get a 4 or a 5 on the AP Physics test, pump up his other test scores, and somehow manage to convince colleges that he's not a student who slacked off until junior year (when he seemed to join dozens of activities indiscriminately). The hypothetical "choice" in this thread doesn't exist - either option means disaster.</p>

<p>Okay... Sorry to be so brutal, but honesty is necessary for these forums to have any value, and since I've been admitted to Harvard (and know many others who have) I have at least a bit of credibility.</p>

<p>And I'd like to add that I know that this seems brutal and unfair - but who said that college admissions wasn't? When there's an applicant pool this competitive, and in the absence of other compelling factors, admissions officers simply aren't able to take pity on students with questionable academic records.</p>

<p>Getting an A in the class and scoring badly on the test does not prove anything about student's abilities- it simply displays the lousy teaching the one was subjected to and the wool that was pulled over his/her eyes in the form of a good grade.
Sometimes inflated class grades are used by lousy teachers to appease students- well... it gets tricky when it's an AP class finalized by a test (situation we are talking about.)
And AP scores are not used in admissions, only in placement.</p>

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And AP scores are not used in admissions, only in placement.

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I don't know where you get your information, but this is simply not true.</p>

<p>When purely looking at Academics--</p>

<p>I don't think APs amount to much in the Admissions process, especially when compared to the weight on SATs, SAT IIs, and Class rank.</p>

<p>Random, my statement was in reference to Callthecops2's statement that those who couldn't score fours or fives were not smart enough for college level work. That is simply not the case.</p>

<p>corranged, if APs are no indicators, what in the world can indicate one's academic capablities when entering college-level work? SAT IIs are crappy indictors...so it is only school grades and AP/IB indicate well</p>

<p>I never said that they were not an indicator of a person's ability to do college level work.</p>

<p>Randomperson, thanks for your brutal honesty. Its not what I wanted to hear, but its the truth. I can't believe you remember my chances thread from that long ago. Anyways, I like the way you looked at like an adcom looking for reasons to reject more so than reasons to admit, which I have a sneaking suspicion is the way it works. The first 3 semesters of high school went extremely badly for me. Though it is going much better now, it is likely not good enough. I'll still apply though, but I won't expect much. Thanks all.</p>

<p>Wow, that's redonculous randomperson. I'm self-studying 4 this year and I thought that was a lot. Which exams did you self study, and did you do it all in one year?</p>

<p>What if we took an IB test and never found out the score? Haha. I listed my IB physics SL test but I never checked the test score because I lost my pin number.</p>

<p>lol, id reccomend finding out. email them or something.</p>

<p>Eh it's an SL test. Doesn't count for credit anyway. Besides descisions are probably already made. Scary eh?</p>