I have a problem when people lump “the Muslims” together – as though Muslims are identical by virtually any capacity whatsoever. Yes, all 1.9 billion Muslims on Earth want to just absolutely “ruin” MIT by making it a safe space. Yep.
How is that stifling ideas and discussion? Isn’t this inviting more ideas and discussion than the original plan?
sigh
This is a gross misunderstanding of what a safe space is and what it is intended for.
Originally, the concept of a safe space was not an actual, physical space. In fact, I think in most parlance, it’s still not. The parlance originally developed sort of two prongs - from the LGBT movement and from victims of sexual assault. Often, discussion groups/classes/group settings were designated as “safe spaces” where LGBT students, or victims of sexual assault, could speak openly about their identities and experiences without fear of rejection or hostility from other people.
The concept originated in the women’s movement, actually, at a time in which it was legal to rape your wife, police officers and community members looked the other way at domestic abuse, and women could legally be paid less for the same job. Women’s opinions thoughts, and feelings were continually dismissed as being less-than, unimportant, or hysterical. Women would join consciousness-raising groups to discuss women’s issues, and they would designate them safe spaces so that they wouldn’t encounter that kind of dismissal from each other the same way they did in the larger world. The concept was adopted to support groups for victims of sexual assault, who were especially vulnerable to such hostility. It was also adopted by LGBT groups at a time in which lesbian, gay, transgender, and bisexual individuals (and individuals of other queer spaces) were roundly discriminated against in public spaces. It was a space where they could simply be themselves without fear of reviling from the wider public mainstream.
Apparently, some universities have begun taking the concept a step further, and create an actual physical space in which students can deal with feelings that might be provoked by sensitive topics. It has nothing to do with “feeling too challenged by differing opinions” and being “caressed by deans”; I think going into things with that kind of mindset makes it difficult to think about why a fellow student might want to use one, and breeds disdain and contempt before you’ve even really got started.
Think about it, though. Let’s say that you’re a lesbian who’s just begun exploring your sexuality and your campus is having a debate about same-sex marriage. For all the heterosexual students on campus, the debate is an exercise in philosophical discussion - for you, as a lesbian, people are actually debating whether or not you should be able to marry your partner. It’s real, and it can be distressing, not just because of the topic itself but because of all of the mixed-up feelings about your sexuality that it can bring up. You might need a place to calm down and collect your thoughts, privately, before continuing with the debate.
Or if you are a young Muslim women who wears hijab and a speaker comes to campus and criticizes the wearing of hijab as a sexist relic of the past. Or if you’re a poor student who grew up on public assistance and a class on social welfare ends up devolving into a debate on whether people on public assistance is evidence of laziness and moral decay. Or if you’re a victim of sexual assault who is listening to a class debate whether or not another prominent victim was actually raped or whether she’s lying. It has nothing to do with the opinion or which side of the debate this students fall on it; it has everything to do with the emotions and distress that these students, from marginalized backgrounds, are feeling. These lectures and classes are not simply philosophical discussions for them; they have a VERY real impact on the way that their peers and professors perceive them - and on the way they perceive themselves. This is especially if they are a visible minority and are being pressured (overtly or subtly) to speak for their entire group in class or a lecture.
However, I would argue that separating out a physical rom for this purpose is sort of distorting the idea of a safe space. The idea was that a safe “space” was created by people, not physical structures. In other words, that everyone in a discussion agrees that although you can share your opinion, you have to do so in a way that doesn’t hurt others or devalue other people’s identities and experiences - on BOTH sides. I’ve seen conservative students get attacked for their beliefs before and have spoken up for them even though I’m politically liberal, because no one deserves that. It’s not about the content of your opinions (well, to a point - certain opinions simply don’t respect other people’s humanity) but more about respect for persons.
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So why do students who use safe spaces go to college? The same reason you do: to get an education, to meet new people, to have fun, to prepare for a career. They want to remain psychologically healthy while they do it, just like you do. But sometimes, they have additional challenges posed by being a minority in a majority environment, and they need understanding and compassion. There may be certain dimensions on which you are disadvantaged, too, and you would want compassion and understanding on those dimensions as well.
Actually, as I said upstream I’d argue the concept began with gentleman’s clubs of 18th century England.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen’s_club#History
That sounds exactly like a safe space for the wealthy men of britain, does it not?
Obviously it’s evolved because I don’t think you could call wealthy men of 18th century england a marginalized group. But the concept of a space to speak about your identity and experience free from hostility and rejection by others is there.
Except at a Gentlemen’s club, you were likely to eventually run into somebody who did not share your same political views. This concept of a “safe space” has evolved into keeping the users insulated from opposing viewpoints. Look, I’m not against having areas that can make people feel safe and comfortable. I’m against the way “safe spaces” are used. They are most often used lately to keep adult children from having their feelings hurt.
I think it’s a little ridiculous personally.
The real world is full of people who will disagree with your viewpoints… it’s all part of life. The idea of further insulating yourself from reality seems backwards to me.
No.
Gentlemen’s clubs were not places where gentlemen retreated to avoid hostility and rejection. The “gentlemen” of 18th century Britain who went to these clubs were wealthy, didn’t have to fear societal rejection, and went to the clubs to socialize with their social peers, relax, play games, etc.
The marginalized part is a key feature of a safe space. You can’t ignore or eliminate that part.
This is not what safe spaces are about, and I’m curious about why people seem so invested in insisting that’s what they are. Does anyone have recent examples of safe spaces actually being used that way - as a way of insulating college students from opposing viewpoints rather than a place where members of marginalized groups can avoid being further marginalized?
@juillet Either way you slice it, it’s a “space” where people go to avoid reality. The fact is, once out in the real world, these safe spaces don’t really exist… you need to figure out a way to deal with situations without constantly needing special attention.
Well, that’s exactly what I’m saying - is that safe spaces are not designed to be spaces where people go to avoid reality. That’s what I’m questioning, because each time someone defines what a safe space actually is, someone comes back to say this without any kind of supporting evidence for the idea.
Safe spaces are designed to be spaces where non-marginalized people are not bigots and operate with compassion and understanding - instead of knee-jerk reactions and ignorance - when discussing sensitive issues. I have a hard time understanding what’s so difficult and offensive about the idea that people should watch what they say to avoid insulting or harming people if that’s possible. I’m hoping that I can live in a world that’s decent enough to be like that in most places.
The other thing to remember is that people from these marginalized groups have been dealing with the stress due to discrimination and hostility their whole lives. For example, most people of color report being aware of their race (and the prejudice that comes along with it) at a very young age - usually between 4 and 7. They’re not “going to avoid reality”; they’ve been dealing with reality without any special attention - at least any special positive attention - for their entire lives. (Also consider the fact that you find them ridiculous may simply be a function of the fact that you’ve never had to use one - I’m using the general “you” here, not any one specific person.)
@fractalmstr are you opposed to alcoholics/narcotics anonymous?
Sounds to me like @fractalmstr needs a safe place of his own, where he can whine about other peoples’ safe places without having to feel bad about it. grin
Seriously, what do you care if some other people want to have a place where they can let their guard down with people they feel comfortable with?
If you think about the kinds of stuff people are saying about marginalized groups, let’s see. People’s identities are being used as slurs. People say that [group of people] deserve the bad things that happen to them. People say that [group of people] shouldn’t have the same rights as everyone else. People say that [group of people] are disgusting, backwards, stupid, thugs, whatever.
It might have been more okay if these were just isolated opinions, and all you hear is, “I disagree with this because…” But the way we interact with each other is based on these opinions. So now you have a girl who confides in a friend, telling her that she got really drunk last night and someone assaulted her, and her friend smirks and says, “Well, you should’ve known better.” Or a radio station that only plays heteronormative love songs, because they don’t even consider that there’s a whole population of people who can’t relate to that, or that children shouldn’t be exposed to that kind of love (because it’s [insert negative adjective here]).
And so marginalized people face these little jabs. Maybe constantly. Maybe just enough to remind them that they’re different, and not in a good way. Maybe they want a break, to be in a place where they can just be themselves, or actually be celebrated and defended if someone said something hurtful. If people want to keep phrasing it as “avoiding reality,” then sure. I couldn’t eagerly engage with a reality that’s constantly hurting me.
IDK, I’m not mad or even incredulous at anyone’s opinions. I understand where those who don’t get it are coming from; being hurt or offended is a normal part of life. But I don’t think it serves any purpose to put down the people who are experiencing more hurt and offense than they can handle and want out.
At the end of the day, safe spaces will exist no matter what any of our opinions are on the subject.
As someone who is considered to be a part of a marginalized group and actually uses safe spaces, I can say from experience that they aren’t meant to be places where people can hide from differing opinions. They’re places where marginalized people can go knowing they won’t be subjected to slurs, violence, other attacks, etc on the basis of their identity. It’s also a place where they can meet people like them talk about shared experiences they’ve had relating to their identity.
Also, there can be debate in safe spaces. The safe spaces I’m involved in have debates all of the time. Not everyone in a marginalized group shares the same opinions.
Think of it like a club. But instead of having a shared interest, members have a shared aspect of their idenities and experiences. Sometimes you just need to be among your own, you know?
Firstly, I should explain what that article means to me: being totally coddled by the PC. Let’s be honest, why would anyone prevent anyone else from even seeing the movie? The simple solution is to just not look at the movie and pretend it doesn’t exist (sort of like a safe space of the mind). Instead, these Muslim students decide that the movie should not be shown and fight to get it cancelled. Yes it creates a stronger debate, but that’s only because these people don’t think, “You know what? I don’t have to see that movie”, but that doesn’t occur to them, sadly.
I was going to address the idea that these safe spaces colleges create for their “marginalized” students don’t exist in the parameters of life outside college. That there was a grungy world waiting for us, ready to attack and for us to attack back, but…eat up - http://www.theaggie.org/2015/04/09/bike-shop-opens-for-women-trans-femme-communities/.
Although certain safe spaces exist to keep debates out and coddling in, I can agree that not all are like that. Some do, indeed, have more debate and, luckily, aren’t a hivemind. But for those that are a hive mind, those that do keep out differing opinions, you have to admit those “safe spaces” create extremely unsafe expectations of the world and those that are inside of them will be eaten alive.
You’re missing their point. Whether or not they see the movie, others will and the islmaphobia will grow. You can disagree that American Sniper breeds islmaphobia but that’s a different discussion from what you’re trying to have.
I’m surprised you acknowledge any safe space can be good given you don’t acknowledge marginalized groups
I think some people don’t like the idea of safe spaces because it is a tacit institutional acknowledgement that their biases are harmful to some.
@iwannabe_Brown I never said they were good, I just said they were there to keep up debate. Then again, why have a safe space to debate when there is debate all over the world.
About Islamphobia, if that were the case, the movie wouldn’t have been shown anywhere. Plus, it’s just movie, essentially a statement. I’d rather trust the college population to make their own assessments of the movie, then talk about it rather than it being shut down because of concerns of Islamphobia.
@MidwestDad3 Indeed, some biases are harmful, such as the bias that against black people because of recent protests going bad or biases against white people being the KKK(a very out there example but bare with me) or the bias that some of the Mexican citizens coming across the border are actually a part of the drug cartels. But why would anyone use a safe space instead of denying those biases credibility?
Because there are a lot of people in this world who hold hurtful biases and aren’t going to let some colored/■■■■■■/hysterical feminazi (sarcasm) tell them otherwise. Is that really a hard concept for you to grasp?
You know, kind of like how someone could read a 3 page discussion on safe spaces and still fail to see how they’re useful.
Also
Umm, no, not even close to a true statement. Movies that denigrate populations get made and shown all the time. Again, you can argue that a movie does or doesn’t, but the fact that a movie gets play says nothing about that.
Isn’t this exactly what’s happening on that campus? The movie was postponed but is still being shown.
The thing is they’re not useful. For one, lets say that someone uses safe spaces for most of their college life. At the point of their senior year, they won’t have that rough and tough experience of the world. College is supposed to be the microcosm of life, where you have to find a way through the pain, but if you overuse the safe space, will you know how to survive the world? Then again, maybe safe spaces are a part of the non-college life, such as the article in my post before my last. To me, it’s unfortunate.
Sometimes one grows weary of fighting the good fight, and just needs a nonjudgmental place to go relax. What on earth can be wrong with that?