@MidwestDad3 nailed it best, I think.
@BowlerGuile It is kind of sad that you are so safely snuggled up in your privilege that you can’t see how others might find safe spaces useful, but the real question is WHY DO YOU CARE? It’s not really your place to decide for others whether safe spaces are useful or they might be overused or whatever.
The very fact that you think your opinion about the issue is so important, IRONICALLY, is a perfect illustration of why some people might find them useful.
The real question is what long term good comes out of seeking shelter in safe spaces?
IMO, it’s not just about the instant gratification of being surrounded by like-minded/understanding people, it’s about the potential dependency that is formed by constantly trying to avoid or take a break from reality. The simple fact is you can’t depend on safe spaces in the real world, so what’s the point of getting used to them in college??
@nickflynn You may have been responding to a 3rd sentence in post #39 that I decided to edit out immediately after posting.
In that sentence I pointed out that in a sense, all-white fraternities had served as “safe spaces” for decades. I edited it out because, upon reflection, I was uncomfortable equating all-white fraternities (which I view as harmful and exclusionary) with today’s safe spaces (which I view as useful and necessary). It wasn’t a legitimate comparison to make, so I went back and took it out.
I see a safe space is the umbrella that you can go to during a thunderstorm. That’s their value, IMO, @fractalmstr. I’m glad they are available on campuses should a student decide to go to one.
“Privilege”
Do you even know who I am? If you saw my life, you wouldn’t call me privileged, at all. I won’t tell you what color I am, but it doesn’t matter. My argument matters. Speaking of…
[/QUOTE]
The reason I care about safe spaces is because I don’t want them to begin permeating into anyone’s academic life, which it sort of has, in the form of trigger warnings. For a long time, there has been stories of students demanding the entire college become a safe space or undermining the maturity of college students, such as stories like this, respectively. http://dailybruin.com/2015/05/25/chloe-lew-campus-safe-spaces-need-expansion-into-classrooms/ and http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/judith-shulevitz-hiding-from-scary-ideas.html?_r=0
I don’t get your last paragraph. Are you saying that my opinion might be harmful to others and they need a safe space or, because of my opinion, I need a safe space?
It is amazing to me that this can go on for multiple pages and yet no one has mentioned the oldest and most common form of “safe spaces” on college campuses:
Fraternities / Sororities
That’s essentially what they are - safe spaces for self-selecting groups of (mostly) mainstream people.
edited: @MidwestDad3 I was noting agreement with your post #35
@BowlerGuile I think you probably don’t really have a great understanding of what “privilege” means in this context.
I also think the fact that you seem unwilling to just let others go their separate ways occasionally, and feel like their decision to do so threatens “your” preferred academic environment is actually a good illustration of why certain groups of people might want an occasional refuge.
For the record, I might actually agree with you on certain examples of overuse of “trigger words” or some other far reaching examples of political correctness run amok - however, I honestly can’t understand why the concept of “safe spaces” is something that you just can’t accept that some people need or want. Fundamentally, it’s none of your damned business, and the fact that you think it is reeks of a fundamental lack of understanding about the perspective of other people and a strong predisposition to see your own vantage point as the only correct opinion, which is the fundamental basis of “privilege.”
Perhaps the safe-spaces crowd here is doing a lousy job convincing the rest of us why these safe spaces are a good idea.
The all-important question has yet to be answered: What happens in the real world when safe spaces are not an option?
In the end, “marginalized groups” can do whatever they please… but the logic behind the usefulness of safe-spaces seems shortsighted at best, and faulty at worst.
In the “real world,” family, groups of close friends, the regulars down at the local bar and many other social settings that people seek out fulfill many of the same functions as safe spaces.
@fractalmstr Safe spaces ARE available in “the real world.” AA & Al-Anon, an MR group home, confession, and any number of other settings are areas where you can feel free to speak without judgment. Talking circles within the restorative justice movement area a great example of this of this as well.
Exactly @MidwestDad3! @fractalmstr, you never answered my previous question (and maybe @BowlerGuile, can chime in too). Are you against alcoholics anonymous and narcotics anonymous? What about group therapy? What about individual therapy? What about support groups for [insert demo here: e.g. single moms, wounded veterans, victims of incest, people with chronic hepatitis C and/or HIV, paraplegics, etc.?]
No reasonable person would object to any of those things. If any group of folks wants to get together and commiserate/mourn/complain/support each other etc. more power to them. The thing is, members of these groups seek each other out independently of any institution. There are layers upon layers of online communities that allow kids to find fellow injured souls, no need for the college to get involved.
Extending that logic, subtrop, why should a college provide health services, food service, a dorm in which to live, or bus trips to the airport? All of these things are available independent of any institution.
Confidence? Coping mechanisms for the real world “rough and tough” experience? Better understanding of self? Any number of things than can help a person better themselves and their quality of life?
Once again, see the AA comparison.
There’s a central flaw in your logic. Most of the safe spaces you seem to be talking about are being used by people who have seen a rougher life than average. So, because they’ve had said life and then decided to talk about it, they will have never experienced it in the first place? Of course not.
I’m almost certain you are part of multiple “safe spaces” in the real world. Have a family? How unfortunate that’s part of our societal structure, to have people to support and care about you.
It sounds to me like the underlying stance you have is one of extreme individualism if your opinions are to the core and not just misunderstood or ill placed. But most cultures, though less so in America, emphasize ideas of community and cohesiveness, the ideas that usually lead to “safe spaces” and support networks that ultimately make life better for those involved.
@MidwestDad3 because they can.
@iwannabe_Brown those aren’t safe spaces. Those are support groups. Who ever said frats or sororities were safe spaces, they were clubs, but I could understand that person retracting that example.
In general, I think we have different definitions of safe spaces and were arguing very different things. A safe space could actually be a space to stay safe from physical harm, a space to stay away from “harmful” opinions, a space to not be triggered and coddled (may or may not be combined with the “harmful” opinions one), a place could find common ground in terms of activities(which are actually clubs), or places where people can find support or therapy(called support groups or therapy sessions).
What I’m arguing against are safe spaces that are of the second and third kind. I’m not saying these spaces shouldn’t exist, I just find them dumb.
I think then the problem is your definition of safe spaces. You have a conception that the second and third exist, but I don’t think they actually do. I certainly can’t think of one on a college campus. It seems that you deem any group that may generally disagree with any of your opinions to be the second or third kind.
Have you ever encountered a group of that type? I’ve been through high school and a year of college and haven’t, and I don’t think they exist by your definition. I think that’s the myth here.
@PengsPhils Trust me when I say I’m not individualist. My family place is not a safe space. They’re my family and there is actually a lot about my families opinions I disagree with. For example, I’m an atheist and the rest of my family are Christians who dislike homosexuals and believe in superstitious stuff. Occasionally, I’ll ask them about their beliefs and will come up with evidence for evolution, something they don’t believe. In this case, my opinions and observations are scrutinized, but this isn’t like that for all families. Again, when I say I’m against safe spaces, it’s the ones that create hive minds.
It’s not any group that I disagree with necessarily, I just think safe spaces are dumb. Like I said before, I’m an atheist. In a certain I go to, we would have an atheist group, but instead of talking about religion in different perspectives or bringing their religious friends for debate, they essentially have, again, a hive mind, who doesn’t allow for dissenting opinions. I’m not saying atheists are like that, but most safe spaces might be like that.
The entire thread, 4 pages of this, has told you that safe spaces do not do this. I don’t know where you got this conception. Your opinion on safe spaces is based on a misunderstanding of what they are.
I’m not misunderstanding anything. Not all safe spaces will cause a hive mind, but the ones that do cause differing opinions to stay unaccepted. Even worse, it could permeate into academics. I already posted examples of this, such as in the Daily Bruin, where Chloe Lew from UCLA said “Every space should be a safe space”. Trying to make the entire university a safe space seems maddening and time consuming, anyways. Yes, it could be easy to have professors help, in terms of preparedness for “triggering” material, but are they really going to prepare for everything? Lew does make the distinction that student could prepare for the potentially traumatizing classs, but what if someone’s traumatized by words starting with U because they have scary dreams about U-niversities. it sounds stupid, but it’s possible, so will the professors be forced to spend every waking hour looking for “triggering” or could they actually get to their jobs and teach?
Once again, no safe space or group is cited…
But sure, rape and physical violence with graphic details is the same as all words that start with U. For the record, my high school even warned students before showing graphic images of war. Do you oppose this? What debate or opinion is that stifling?
I haven’t encountered any of this “opinion stifling” in all of my schooling…
In what case has an opinion been stifled by a safe space group? The one where they created an entire discussion about a movie due to differing opinions at many schools, fostering debate? You’ve been complaining about all of these characteristics and throwing out hyperbolic comparisons but never bring up any specifics or examples: what debates are being stifled by safe spaces in college, and by what spaces? I sure haven’t seen them and neither have many other college students in this thread based on their posts and reactions.
You’re right @BowlerGuile, your (and those articles’) narrow, caricaturish perversion of the safe space concept is bad. Is that what you were looking for? Are you satisfied now?
What next? Islam is bad because you choose to define it as consisting solely of the members of ISIS and Al-Qaeda? The CIA should cease any and all interrogations because torture is bad?