So - what's with these GS people?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
1

<p>I hadn't actually considered that GS might interfere, or at least interact, with the undergraduates, but today I was looking at a few pictures on the CU website that showed some GS students in undergraduate classes.</p>

<p>What kind of dynamic do these people bring to the classroom?
And do they take away from any undergraduate resources? Meaning...anything from less attention from professors or less space at the gym? And, of course - do they make that lovely student -teacher ratio featured proudly by Columbia supporters at all inaccurate since they aren't really enrolled at CC?</p>

2

<p>it's not like you're the only person that deserves to use Columbia's resources. they're enrolled in Columbia too and worked hard to get in. GS just means that something happened where they had to take a break between hs and college, such as getting a job.</p>

3

<p>I knew I'd be taken as an anti-GS snob when I posted this. I have a great deal of respect for these people, and I am most certainly not saying I'm the only one entitled to the resources at Columbia. I just want to know if the GS factor, which I was previously unaware of, changes the dynamic of the undergraduate classes at all. Whether this is a positive or negative change...well, that's basically the question I'm posing to you.</p>

4

<p>I wouldn't worry about what students, from what other divisions are in your classes..you're still going to Columbia College and are receiving an education 99.99% of people in the entire world will never have a chance to get. IF it concerns you that much then be aware that you will also be sharing classes, campus facilities and most other resources with not only GS students but SEAS and Barnard students as well. I'm pretty sure the stats for class sizes and student-teacher ratio take all this into account however.</p>

5

<p>GS has been an undergraduate division of Columbia University for 60 years. Has Columbia College had a great reputation for the last 60 years? I think it has. And GS has been a part of undergraduate education at CU during all these years.</p>

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<p>Some GS people are just as smart as regular students. Others aren't that bright. Some have chips on their shoulders / demonstrate jealousy towards regular students / demonstrate an inferiority complex.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Some GS people are just as smart as regular students. Others aren't that bright. Some have chips on their shoulders / demonstrate jealousy towards regular students / demonstrate an inferiority complex.

[/quote]

this is true.</p>

<p>Another way to look at it is, GS students are subsidizing your education. They basically have very little financial aid, because GS is a money-maker for the university. Many of those people are paying full freight, because they're taking a second chance at college after earning some money in the real world. they provide a lot of the operating expenses which otherwise would come out of your financial aid package. so, mentally at least, thank them for it.</p>

<p>in my experiences, in the larger lecture classes some of the GS students interfered slightly - i'm talking the really older ones, like 35+. WindowShopping might get on my case for saying this, but they were usually the ones asking dumb questions when everyone else just wanted the professor to keep moving with his lecture... they were the ones standing in line to ask questions after class too. That's one side of GS, the annoyingly self-absorbed type. The other side, of course, are the 20-year-old freshmen who are basically like you and me but have spent a year or two working. there's usually a lot more they have in common with the CC/SEAS kids, and are treated as such.</p>

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<p>GS students bring life experience to the classroom. Something most 18 year olds know absolutely nothing about. That's generally the case with anything involving older folks. You can learn a lot from these people if you give them a chance.</p>

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<p>see, I hear that type of argument a lot, usually in favor of "diversity". and i'm always left wondering what these peoples' "life experience" is going to do to help me or other students learn calculus or chemistry or renaissance history. They don't know any more than we do in 99% of cases, and even if they do the professor isn't exactly going to rely on them to bolster his or her lectures or seminars.</p>

<p>we're not taking classes on "life experience". and i may be able to learn things from them if i were their friend, outside of class... but that's entirely irrelevant when they're (say) hogging professors' time inside the classroom and disrupting the flow of a lecture.</p>

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<p>There are a lot of things to be learned during your college years besides for chemistry and calculus. I guess it's a matter of personal opinion. Some may take kindly to the notion, others may not.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
GS students bring life experience to the classroom. Something most 18 year olds know absolutely nothing about. That's generally the case with anything involving older folks. You can learn a lot from these people if you give them a chance.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I second everything Denzera said, and also note that this is exactly the sort of thing that makes CC/SEAS students say, as I posted, that GS students "have chips on their shoulders / demonstrate jealousy towards regular students / demonstrate an inferiority complex."</p>

<p>Sure, some GS students have "life experience." Others, f'ed up earlier in life and are just getting their sh-- together.</p>

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<p>OK UriA, this one's on you. Please give concrete examples that are not unlikely to occur in the real world, of situations where a GS student with a little "life experience" will enrich the classroom experience for the rest of us. Let's say... 3 examples. Ready, go.</p>

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<p>1) Reflecting on life experiences related to material presented to get a better understanding of it, in a writing class or such
2) Economics - many GS students have worked and can present examples of their past employment to help progress conversation in a class such as microeconomics
3) Some GS students have served in the military, which can provide the classroom with a comprehensive understanding of what goes in on the military, and how politics affects our people in uniform.
4) Students who have worked in a field such as computer programming and are now getting a degree in their perspective field, can help explain how their employer analyzes and structures databases, software, how they handle security, etc. etc. </p>

<p>I can think of others. I'm not saying that all GS students will enlighten students with their life experiences. It may very well be irrelevant in chemistry, mathematics, or other fields but with a little open mindedness you may actually be able to learn something from them. Don't be so quick to judge.</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
1) Reflecting on life experiences related to material presented to get a better understanding of it, in a writing class or such

[/quote]

So you're in a writing class with a GS student, and you're discussing the text you're going to write about, and he starts talking about what he went through to support his family for the last 10 years. That's going to help you be a better writer?</p>

<p>
[quote]
2) Economics - many GS students have worked and can present examples of their past employment to help progress conversation in a class such as microeconomics

[/quote]

Dude, I'd worked full-time for 2 years before matriculating at SEAS. I took some econ classes. It didn't help one bit. The only thing it really made a difference in - and this is big, I realize - is self-discipline. Once you've had a professional job where you're putting in the hours every day, it's a lot easier to self-motivate for coursework or a complex schedule. But that sure didn't help the other students in my class. I can't see how having a GS student who'd worked for 3-7 years or something would in any way benefit the other students in the class. What's he going to say, "in my experience, demand doesn't fall when price increases"? I mean, be specific here. Yes he's got experience but how does that help other people?</p>

<p>
[quote]
3) Some GS students have served in the military, which can provide the classroom with a comprehensive understanding of what goes in on the military, and how politics affects our people in uniform.

[/quote]

You have more of a point here, there are a decent number of whackjobs who senselessly rail against our military without ever having had to confront the reality of why it exists or what it does, or to distinguish the policy-makers on the top from the soldiers on the front lines.</p>

<p>Columbia students go to a diverse range of places after graduation, but I would say more than 50% end up in one of these 4 categories:
- Law school / med school
- PhD programs in their academic discipline
- Banking or Consulting
- Teaching</p>

<p>In the end, I don't think it makes much of a difference to them because they won't be interacting with anything in the military. So I can see a slight benefit here, sort of in the way that having minorities or homosexuals or international students makes you more aware of their existence and less likely to be prejudicial. But I'm not sure it's significant enough to win the argument that GS students should be in our seminars.</p>

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<p>Bringing life expierence into the classroom is a plus, you really shouldn't be so quick to judge because you may just burn a bridge you have to cross in the future. Do you know what connections GS students may have outside of the classroom? Doubt it and quite possibly they may be more powerful than yours. You should be tolerant of the diversity and those around you in the classroom, people are different thus they contribute different things. Some people are good at medecine, some at writing, some with money, some at athletics, some at politics, some at dealing with pressure, some at winning and the list goes on. </p>

<p>Be happy you are where you are, and realize the world is different after college. If you can take in a few succesful life stories on the way, be grateful, it puts you further ahead in the race. It's as easy as training your mind to pay attention to someone who sounds like a winner, and turning it off for someone who doesn't, a skill that only comes from expierence.</p>

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<p>It is not like CC students are god’s gift to Columbia. I am a current GS student and think this thread is ridicules. I will tell you straight up that I probably can’t teach you anything you don’t know about calculus, chemistry or renaissance history. I’m sure you will run circles around me in that stuff. However, after serving five year as a Green Beret, I’m sure I can teach you a thing or two about current politics, culture, and wars all over this world that you will never hear about on CNN. Can you tell me why some lady named Benazir Bhutto was killed in some country over there, and what it means for America? </p>

<p>I would now like to ask the question, why should I allow CC students to grace themselves around me? Do you think I like hanging out with snot-nosed 18 year olds? Is it because they have good grades? Good SAT scores? Or maybe they were their high schools number one student? I will tell you right now, who cares about that? Unless you have done some amazing things like worked closely with government officials, world with leaders, or have connections in Americas Special Forces, you don’t bring anything to the table for me. </p>

<p>I am not bitter at any CC student. I am happy to work with any of them and study along side. What I don’t like is when CC students refer to GS students as “these people.” I served our country in war, and to some, that mean I deserve Columbia’s education more than others.</p>

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<p>I completely agree, which is why I defended the GS students in the first place. What people with different life experiences bring to the table is diversity, and the younger kids just don't seem to understand how much there is to be learned. I really don't get when someone says "yea they've got life experience, how does that help anybody else?" Professors are not the only people you learn from in the classroom, diversity is a big plus, I have found that you very often learn just as much from your classmates as you do from the professors. That is if you are willing to hear what they have to say. Of course it will be no help to a stuck up snooty 18 year old who thinks they are more deserving than someone else. </p>

<p>I completely agree that anyone who served in the military such as yourself has more of a right to attend any university than anyone of us who traveled the road most commonly taken, straight from HS to college.</p>

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<p>Some of the greatest teachers I had didn’t stand in front of the room and lecture, they stirred up the students by asking question that would provoke the class and start a debate among us. The teacher just guided the debate to make sure we did not get off topic. Besides, just because a professor received a degree from some great university dose not mean he knows everything. I believe you can learn something new from every person you meet, you just need to find what it is.</p>

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<p>First of all, the thread was mainly started to ask about more students draining professors and other resources. The value of "these people" I don't believe was ever called into question. </p>

<p>Very well - now for this:</p>

<p>"I would now like to ask the question, why should I allow CC students to grace themselves around me? Do you think I like hanging out with snot-nosed 18 year olds? Is it because they have good grades? Good SAT scores? Or maybe they were their high schools number one student? I will tell you right now, who cares about that? Unless you have done some amazing things like worked closely with government officials, world with leaders, or have connections in Americas Special Forces, you don’t bring anything to the table for me." </p>

<p>ouch. ouch. ouch. still stinging.</p>

<p>That's a pretty narrow minded view of the CC'ers!!
Sounds like you could start a fairly nasty thread about us yourself, eh? </p>

<p>It's interesting that you say you've learned from people around the world - if you're too bullheaded to learn from a few "snot-nosed 18 year olds" how did you tolerate or learn from anyone else?</p>

<p>Kids don't just get in because of SATs, grades, and rank. Not only are they intelligent enough to achieve these things (there are real people, sacrifices, and harrrrdd work that contribute to those mechanical stats, mind you) the people at CC are people who have really made differences in the communities and schools, people who've followed their passions - and while they may not parallel your service as a Green Beret, everyone does offer you something, sir. </p>

<p>I guess this goes right back to that "bitter GS students" attitude previously discussed. I admire your service, and I feel many people would value your knowledge and experience - but I can't imagine I'd be taught anything by someone who truly feels they're that much better than everyone else.</p>

20

<p>I am not arguing that I am better than any other type of student, we all have a characteristic that Columbia found impressive. If that wasn’t the case, none of us would be there. I apologize if my last post offended you or anyone else, I wrote it because I felt that was how the GS students were being talked about. Like I said before, I have no problem with any student at Columbia, excepted for the ones who think I shouldn’t be there. </p>

<p>In the end, I think we call all agree on this. Your not going to Columbia unless you have proven yourself in someway. GS has been around for decades, and Columbia ranking has not faltered during the time. If GS was a problem, for draining professor resources, they would have done something about it much earlier. At the same time, it could be because of GS that Columbia is where it is in the ranking, unlikely yes, but still on avenue left unexplored.</p>