So... When Does This Get Old?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
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<p>JHS - thanks for the very level-headed advice.</p>

<p>Yale is the only Ivy that interests me because it seems like the only one where I’d feel comfortable being low-income, among other requirements - being near a city, no CORE curriculum, relatively close to home. I’m only applying to one Ivy because of the cost of applications. I simply don’t have hundreds of dollars to throw at applications. I have fee waivers (4 Collegeboard + unlimited NACAC or whatever those initials were, I’m blanking out), but the cost to send test scores, my transcript (after like three or four it costs $20), the CSS/PROFILE, etc. I just don’t have much money laying around. It will probably be a stretch just for the $300 I’m anticipating for six applications. That’s the only reason I’m not also applying to Penn (which was okay in my book), Northwestern (definitely a match for me), Georgetown (a little too preppy for me but otherwise a perfect school for me, as you seemed to have noted).</p>

<p>I absolutely love GW, American, and WUSTL. Those are non-negotiables, which is fine, since they are match/safety/reach respectively. On the other hand, Boston could probably go. UMD College Park is my in-state financial safety. I’d be willing to swap out Boston for another reach (Penn?). I’m conservative when it comes to college applications, so my list is very bottom heavy. Applying to more than six schools is going to cause some serious financial strain unless a $300 or $500 essay contest comes through.</p>

<p>You’re advice is great. I’d probably apply to a few more reaches if I thought I had the money (and the time!) as well as some strong fall back schools, but I’m just worried. I am not confident that I’m a “sure shot” anywhere because of my ECs and lack of honors/awards.</p>

<p>If you’re curious, my qualifications for a good school are:
–urban, especially if the public transportation is good
–non-religiously affiliated or non-religiously active (Georgetown fits, Notre Dame doesn’t… heh)
–2-8 hours from home (Maryland) preferably, but I won’t rule it out if I really like the school and financial aid is good (WUSTL is an exception here, possible Northwestern)
–medium to large, nothing smaller than 3000 students, preferably 5000-15,000
–proximity to DC is a bonus (it’s my favorite city + it’s the ebst place for IR/Poli Sci)
–challenging academics but not overly competitive
–no CORE or Great Books curriculum
–preferably center or liberal, I love to debate but going to a right-of-center school would be EXHAUSTING since I just can’t turn down an opportunity to discuss and debate</p>

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<p>yeah…im sorry but she has almost NO SHOT at Yale…I’m sorry to be harsh, because people here are giving her false expectations…</p>

<p>DONT WORRY, I got rejected from Yale 2013…I was a URM
I had 2270 SAT (one sitting), 800, 770,770 SAT II’s, 3.98 UW, 4.34 W,
I had done research with a professor from Emory, and had unique extracurriculars (bodybuilding/powerlifting)</p>

<p>So dont think the URM status is sufficient anymore, cuz its not…</p>

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<p>I don’t think you’re being harsh. I think you’re being honest and realistic based on what you know, and I appreciate that.</p>

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<p>but hey, i might have written ****ty essays, so u might be different there…</p>

<p>well, in any instance, hope u do well and get accepted to the best college possible ;)</p>

<p>u seem very nice!</p>

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<p>I have some questions for all of the people who think that she doesn’t have a shot at getting in:

  1. Who are all of the people with average scores at Yale, if not URM’s and similarly hooked students? Legacies and athletes only make roughly a third of the class, so you can’t blame them for the median score being in the 2200’s.
  2. Where do you think they are finding all of these 2300+ URM’s? There aren’t very many out there.</p>
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<p>lockn - i’m not quite sure why you don’t understand this concept, but there are thousands of URM with mid 2200 SATs applying to Yale. Having a good SAT, good GPA, and rigor of schedule are simply the basis for being CONSIDERED. After that, they look at what you can uniquely bring to Yale’s environment (ECs, passion for a particular subject, athletics, etc.). I don’t want to be mean, but the OP has virtually no ECs and hasn’t shown that she has a passion for a particular subject or anything, so it is very unlikely she gets accepted.</p>

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<p>

This statement is simply false. There were less than 2000 black applicants to Yale TOTAL last year. </p>

<p>There are 1600 national achievement semifinalists per year. The cutoff PSAT scores differ by state but they are the area of ~190. Given, this doesn’t translate directly to SAT performance and a good number of people don’t take the SAT. However, I think you are very dramatically overestimating the number of people with the stats of OP.</p>

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<p>I think as BigWeight’s experience illustrates, URM status plus good numbers does not guarantee admission to Yale (Harvard, etc.). But that doesn’t mean no shot, either. And look at his “Location” line – at one tick down the selectivity ladder, the chances get meaningfully better.</p>

<p>Now, I don’t know everything there is to know about D.C. schools and their financial aid/scholarship programs. But I do know that as a high-achievement URM from a very low income family, you are unlikely to get a better financial deal than the need-based aid you would get from an Ivy university (or the equivalent). From an economic perspective, it’s waaaay worth it to invest $20-30 to apply to Penn, or Brown (or Harvard, for that matter, or Princeton – hello, Woodrow Wilson School). The applications that need justifying are American, GW, etc. The return on those applications – even if you are certain to be admitted – is probably lower than the return on a Penn application.</p>

<p>Some specific stuff you need to research:</p>

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<li><p>Questbridge. I think it would do away with the economic problem with these applications, as well as improving your chances of acceptance somewhat. If you can’t get into that program, you should at least know why.</p></li>
<li><p>You need to really do focused research on financial aid and scholarship practices at the colleges you like, and some of the ones in the next set. How much in loans are they likely to make you take out? Do they have loan forgiveness programs? What are the costs? Do they meet full need? I completely understand why you might like GW or WUSTL better than Georgetown, but I doubt you really want to pay $100,000 of loans plus interest extra to attend one of them rather than Georgetown SFS. The difference could come down to that.</p></li>
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<p>ugh, people don’t know what they’re talking about. you have a good shot and it’s not just because you’re black. i know plenty of people on the admissions board and i work there myself. i think you have shown tremendous potential with your proactive actions toward your education. working your way through high school while maintaining excellent grades is something very unusual for yale applicants. i think the adcoms will see this with favor. your scores are great and you’ve done what you could given your circumstances. while i obviously can’t guarantee your admission, i don’t think you should completely lose hope.</p>

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<p>I think the above poster nailed it on the head. They want students that make the most out of the opportunities given them, and most often times, beyond the opportunities given them. From what the OP has written, it does seem that she has been proactive in her education, given her situation. I think the admissions board will definitely take that into consideration.</p>

<p>Bigweight, were you low-income? I think that is also a huge advantage for the OP.</p>

<p>Also, if you are low-income, you should qualify for free applications. Even schools that don’t have fee waiver forms, you can write them your situation and include tax forms, and they should waive your application fee.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>

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<p>you’re in, i guarantee it. I got in with much less qualifications but the same hooks. just write good essays too.</p>

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<p>It’s a long flight across the country, but you might consider applying to Stanford. I’ve heard the admissions director say that Stanford really likes kids who aren’t handed everything on a silver platter. </p>

<p>I would never claim to know enough to predict chances, but I have some thoughts. Prior poster’s concerns with your lack of ECs and awards is ludicrous - you work 25 hours a week, for goodness sake. Colleges will understand that if you are able to explain what it meant for your life. I agree that you could improve your SAT II scores, but I’d say it’s more important to find people who will write recommendation letters that really convey your drive and commitment to both education and to helping out your family. And you should be brainstorming about great essay topics. I also agree that you would be smart to drop a safety and add a relatively realistic reach (e.g. choose between American and GWU to substitute Georgetown). Good luck!</p>

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<p>Wow. Some of the comments on this thread make me want to throw up. Why are nerds so angry at URMs? I was a white female unhooked applicant from upstate New York with a 30 point higher SAT score than the OP (and fewer APs), and I got in. It sucks that some people have this illusion of Ivy League schools as overachiever paradise, and then try to dissuade people who they think are less qualified from applying. :/</p>

<p>OP: Don’t let people convince you into applying to Ivies that you don’t really want to go to just for the finaid. I did, and it was a complete waste of my time/money (even when I got in).</p>

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<p>Although my GPA was higher than yours, all of my SATs scores were lower than yours, and my awards/honors pretty much mirrored yours. What I did then was position myself through the app, I conveyed a genuine passion (in my case, MUN. I have tons of prizes in that area.) I did IB Diploma, not APs. And my essays were pretty much the highlight of my application. My great interview just clinched my acceptance.</p>

<p>What I’m trying to say is, I have no hooks whatsoever (URMs, legacy, athlete: I don’t even play any sports other than tennis) and all of my stats, except GPA, are lower than yours. So, yes, you have pretty much an 85% of getting in, which is as much as I can give you, because the remaining 15% depends on your essay and interview (if you have any.) I don’t even consider recs because they are always good. You must be really dumb if you pick someone who may speak poorly about you. </p>

<p>So, put all your energy into those essays. Be honest and raw, yet polished and witty. The subjective beats the objective anytime when it comes to this process.</p>

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<p>Applicannot, the fact that you left your ‘crappy’ school in hopes of getting a better education already shows that you are a determined, well off student. Just like anyone else, (I think that) you have a good chance, regardless of a URM. The best thing you can do is write an amazing essay, truly coming from your heart. I think that instead of looking around your area for other EC’s/clubs to join, why not consider starting one? That would show true leadership skills. I’m aware that you go to an online school, plus the fact that you said that there aren’t too many involved teens in your area, but you may be surprised. </p>

<p>Overall, best of luck when applying, and I hope that you will be extremely happy with whatever school you end up attending.</p>

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<p>OP, I hope you are admitted to Yale and decide to attend. Your voice would be a welcome one.</p>

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<p>Wow! Thank you everyone for the responses. This thread has definitely helped me get my bearing. Some of these posts are kind of old, btu I wasn’t around yesterday and I still want to respond.</p>

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<p>I never would have believed this statement until I looked at this chart: <a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/sat_percentile_ranks_2008_cr_m_w_gender_ethnic_groups.pdf[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board. This was incredibly eye-opening for me. For white students, a 600 is a 78th percentile. For African American students, a 600 is the 94th percentile! I thought that SAT scores would be more closely related to socioeconomic status (I mean, they are definitely related), but race is a huge factor. I don’t know what all of the reasons are, but it is an incredible thing to learn. I’m not trying to lean to one side or the other, but less than 1% of all African American students score 700 or above on any of the sections. Less than 175,000 African American students took the test, so that means about 1745 African American students scored a 700 or higher on any ONE test. Even if ALL of those students scored a 700 or higher on EVERY section, and they ALL applied to Yale… I’m not saying this to say my chances are increased or anything like that (I promise!), I just remember talking about this in another thread. I never, ever would have believed that African Americans had such low base statistics, but unfortunately, the facts are there.</p>

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<p>You’re absolutely right. I hate to be stubborn knowing all the help you’ve given me, but American and GW are my perfect fit schools. That said, you’re right - it is a much better investment to look at schools with better financial aid. I think what really sucks is having to put College Park on the list. I don’t even like the school but because of instate tuition (and a high chance at the Banneker Key full ride scholarship), it seems foolish to remove it. That said, I don’t like all of the Ivies you think I should apply to. I wonder if this list looks more appropriate financially?</p>

<p>Yale
Penn or Harvard (my favorites of the Ivies)
WUSTL
GW
American
UMD College Park</p>

<p>I have a safety (American), a financial safety (College Park), a match that I love (GW), two reaches that I love (WUSTL/Yale), and a financial reach that I don’t necessarily love (Harvard or Penn). College Park, WUSTL, Yale, and the other Ivy will almost certainly give me a full ride (I mean, if I get in of course!). GW and American have great financial aid and are solid match/safety schools (although GW has a hint of Tuft’s Syndrome…).</p>

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<p>Questbridge is a great program, and while I will continue to look into it, I’m not sure it’s for me. Wherever you get matched to you have to go to, right? I feel like I would much rather wait to see what all of my different financial aid packages are. I hope you don’t think I’m slamming your advice. I’m not. I definitely appreciate it. But sometimes it just comes down to compromising what I want and what “seems” best.</p>

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<p>GW doesn’t meet full need, but they have generous need-aware merit aid scholarships. Georgetown meets full need but offers loans as part of the package (if I’m going to apply anywhere, I’m going to apply to a no-loans school!). WUSTL is a 100% need, no-loans school for my income bracket. At GW and AU, I’d probably have to take out between $5000 and $10000 per year in loans, pretty much wiping out grad school. At WUSTL and Yale, I would have even less (maybe $2000 per year in loans to cover my student contribution so I could have spending money through the year, and maybe a $5500 stafford loan to go on a summer abroad, but hopefully not).</p>

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<p>Yes! I was worried about only getting four application waivers from Collegeboard, but another poster pointed out to me application waivers from another organization, as well as the letter-writing policies from other schools. I think I can also get a waiver or a fee reduction for the CSS/PROFILE. That does definitely help. Everything helps, really.</p>

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<p>Thanks. I’ll need it!</p>

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<p>I’m going to continue commenting on the third page of posts. I am listening to and internalizing everyone’s advice, definitely. This is my way of letting you all know how I feel about what you’ve said.</p>

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<p>Flights to California are long and expensive, though. I would love to apply there, but the hard fact is that the $2000 I make during the same (well, maybe $3000), has to pay for books, spending money, transportation, and incidental fees. I think $1000 or more in shipping and plane costs would really, really be a stretch for me. However, I will look up Stanford’s financial aid. Some schools offer transportation grants to low income students. If there were to be a transportation grant or stipend in the picture, I’d definitely have to reconsider Stanford.</p>

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<p>I’m relieved you said this. I was thinking that was the deal - if work was your main EC (and you were doing it for your family), it would help your lack of ECs. I hope it does. Working 25 hours a week + school for 40 hours a week + volunteering for 10 hours a week… well I still have free time (I’m pretty good at time management), but I was hoping the working thing would help me out some (in fact, I’m getting ready for work right now). It may not be the general consensus on this post, but it is a relief that at least one person thinks it’s really important.</p>

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<p>Even though Georgetown meets 100% need, it does offer loans as a part of its package. This kind of rules out Georgetown for me, even though it is a god suggestion. If I’m going to take out loans, I’d rather go to GW.</p>

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<p>You’re entirely right. That’s why I’m really hanging on to WUSTL, AU, and GW no matter what’s posted here. The other schools - Boston and Pitt - were schools I liked, but were schools that weren’t that important to me. I would like to go to Yale, though, which is why I’m leaving that on the list. It is kind of tough to compromise, though, because going to a school for free offers me a lot of opportunities - like being able to go on a summer trip, or being able to take out a loan to do something above and beyond my undergraduate experience, or being able to take out loans to go to grad school. So I understand what you’re saying and what everyone else is saying. The major factor of the Ivies that I don’t like is snobbiness and/or not being able to fit in as a low-income student on a very tight budget. There are other factors, but at Penn and Harvard, those factors are largely mitigated. At Yale, I don’t feel like I’d be alienated just because I’d be on a strict budget throughout the school year and because I’ve had different life experiences from the more wealthy students.</p>

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<p>Is an interview really necessary? I’m WAY too nervous to do an interview.</p>

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<p>Excellent advice. I’m pretty sure I have a good essay subject. I hesitate to list it here, but I’d be interested in feedback.</p>

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<p>I really hated everything about my old school. I love to learn, and there was definitely NO learning going on there. I was worried that going to a distance learning school would damage my application (well, it probably will…), so maybe it was selfish, but I just could NOT spend two more years in that hellhole. I wanted to go to a school with better academics and more challenging classes. The only private school in my area does not really offer those factors, so I had to turn to the only option I could think of.</p>

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<p>Thanks! Are you a student? I’ve heard that during Bulldog Days, if the current students don’t welcome you with open arms, they don’t want you to come. I don’t handle the “hazing” deal very well.</p>

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<p>applicannot, I strongly urge you to apply through the QuestBridge program. You are exactly the type of applicant who is helped the most by the program. Your working to pay for your schooling and to help out your family is a very strong EC. The QB application is designed to help you highlight that type of thing. There are both binding schools and non-binding schools in the program. The non-binding schools which do NOT require you to attend include Yale, Stanford, Princeton, and Notre Dame. I’m pretty sure MIT is non-binding and there could be some others as well. The QB schools include travel costs as part of their FA package.</p>

<p>Also, I think you are smart to keep UMCP on your list. I think you have a fantastic chance at getting into amazing schools with great financial aid, but it is really important to have a financial safety school in your list.</p>

<p>I’m the parent of a current Yale student. I have never heard of hazing going on. I’ve also never heard of anyone being greeted with less than open arms.</p>

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<p>I didn’t know some of the programs were non-binding. I knew I needed to do more research. Thanks for this information. Yale and Stanford are definitely good reasons to use Questbridge.</p>

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<p>I didn’t mean “hazing” in that sense. I read a couple of places online that the Bulldog Days can be very important. That said, everyone speaks so highly of the Yale community that I don’t really think it will be a problem, just like you said.</p>