<p>Especially for anyone who needs financial aid? Two cases on the the forum of students applying and getting accepted ED, having done due dligence with NPC and getting an aid package far less than estimates. They have family owned businesses which is a no no if you want accurate results on NPCs. Both applied to schools that meet full need and those schools, NW and Swarthmore do give excellent financial aid as compared to most colleges. By far. But their definition of need, and FAFSA's definiton of need and the family's definition of need are very far off, and the NPCs did not reflect this at all. There should be a warning about family businesses on the danged thing, but I doubt if that is the only thing that will cause results to be off and you can't list them all.</p>
<p>So the kids get the ED acceptances and are overjoyed and pitch the other apps, even though the estimated fin aid package is not there yet because additional info need for the family businees. Yes, that should have been a flag, and they should have started looking for other school, but most applicants are amaterus at this. They've been accepted to a top notch school that has the rep of giving the best of best fin aid and they are busy getting back slaps and congrats and basking in the acceptance. And of course the holidays are here and the college offices are closed, so it takes a while to get the not so generous, inadiequate awards. Then comes the discussion with the fin aid officers and the appeals process while they really have moved on to other things and it's not a pleasant experiene at all.</p>
<p>Not to mention that some deadlines have been missed for merit awards that those who are well qualified to get in to such selective schools, would have some shot at getting. </p>
<p>On top of all of that , the clock is ticking on whether or not the students names are on that ED accept list when a given time goes by. It's mid January now, and it's finally beginning to sink in with these kids that they are not going to be going to their ED schools and they need to formally ask for release from the ED Contracts or they could be on the ED accept list and their apps flushed from consideration from some schools.</p>
<p>Not to mention some kids who got much smaller awards than expected. The Stafford sub and work study with a $1000 or less grant in one case. Comparing awards at some like schools could mean looking at awards that did not have self help so the student could use the Stafford as an unsub and use the time working towards the EFC. That option is now gone. Even more tenuous is the situtiation where a high need kid gets something like this. That extra $8K towards the EFC could come in handy. THese are all highly competitive applicants that would probalby get a number of offers to compare. You lose that with ED. </p>
<p>Yes, ED can be beautiful when it works, but when you look at something like this, you need to also assess the pain of the down side and for those who need money, It is too risky.</p>
<p>“There should be a warning about family businesses on the danged thing, but I doubt if that is the only thing that will cause results to be off and you can’t list them all.”</p>
<p>The estimate of your net price and aid eligibility is just that, an estimate. After you complete the aid application, the College will review your family’s financial documents to determine your precise eligibility for our support.
Given the simplicity of the calculator and the complexity of some families’ financial situation, this tool may not be useful for you. Results may not be accurate for you if your parents are not together, if they have married others, if they are involved in corporations, partnerships, or sole proprietorships, if they have rental properties, claim investment losses, are ill, or have lost jobs.</p>
<p>The way FAFSA can look at a small business and the way PROFILE does are very different. I believe it’s her family has a Sub S structure and there are two kids in college.</p>
<p>not sure why owning a business should cloud things so much. The NPCs I’ve looked at ask for business income and the value of the business. It really isn’t that complicated, all info on tax returns.</p>
<p>As long as schools continue to dangle tangible acceptance rate bumps to students who apply ED, students will continue to apply, even if they can’t or shouldn’t because they’ll end up screwing themsleves over.</p>
<p>It may have to do with how much is re-invested in the business each year or what business deductions are taken. In other words sales 100k-50k expenses=50k profit. I made 50k last year. Sales 100k-50k expenses-25k revinvested in business=25k profit. I made 25k last year. IRS agrees with 25k, college says 50k available for tuition. Colleges often add back in legal business deductions/expenses to your income when calculating financial need.</p>
<p>not sure why owning a business should cloud things so much. The NPCs I’ve looked at ask for business income and the value of the business. It really isn’t that complicated, all info on tax returns.</p>
<p>Because business owners/independent contractors take deductions that CSS schools add back in. there was a Columbia family last year who first thought their ED daughter would get about half aid. However, when some of the Realtor mom’s deductions were added back in, Columbia determined that they had no need.</p>
<p>It is very frustrating to be a small business owner and know that the NPC is probably off even if you try to figure in (adjust) what you enter to cover it. I feel like colleges somehow think you could borrow (like an equity loan) for college against the business assets or something. I sure can’t do that for my business! Nor could pretty much anyone I know. I also worry that some inexperienced person in the FA office somehow double counts the income to my business and my personal income (I have an S-corp, so it flows right through – the business income is all on my personal tax return, too).</p>
<p>That said, I think the ED message should be more clear to applicants that they should not withdraw their other application until they have the FA offer in hand and have reviewed it, and if they are dependent on the FA offer, they should continue to apply to colleges until that process is entirely played out. And also that they should not rely on the NPC to make a final financial decision on accepting an ED offer. The ED statement itself should state this.</p>
<p>Dodgermom, two veteran members of these boards who have gone through the admissions process as high need families, have reported as much as $10K difference in full need packages. We are talking about schools that all guarantee to meet full need. $10K to a low income family is big deal. Some schools have student allowances, some allow stacking of aid and merit, some have a sizeable student required contribution, some use the PELL and Staffords as part of the package while others do not, some have loans, some have work study. Some schools look at 401Ks, use 2.4X home equity vs 1.2 vs zero. All of these things can make a big difference to any family but especially one that is struggling with money. Some offer summer research or abroad programs and throw in a lap top in the mix. You never find out when you apply ED.</p>
<p>Even with Harvard, you can run into issues. My friend who is a financial guru was stunned to find out that his son was a full pay at Harvard after all of the hoopla about how Harvard being so generous, as it is. That is not an ED, school, but EA and when his son was accepted they slacked off on all of the merit money because they felt he had it made in terms of fin aid. But the owned apartments and made their living fixing them and now renting them out. Little or no mortgages on them. And that was not only the source of their income, but was the bulk of the retirement nest egg. And they were worth a couple million if they sold them. But no one was buying those days as getting mortgages is not so easy, and the rents though a nice income were not enough to pay for a private school. Same thing happened with a CC poster and Yale whose family made a living the same way. There are always the things that you just might not catch. Maybe you don’t know do take into account 401 K balances in their formulas,some have a max of FAFSA aid and if you fall in some odd pocket, you are not going to get what you might expect.</p>
<p>My son’s friend had a very bad ED situation two years ago. Mom had a very straightforward situation and was grousing and worrying about $5K Christmas bonus she had to use for a car because hers was truly no longer reliable. Came after the PROFILE estimate was sent in. Then they got word that that NCP Dad who made a small income and has a daughter from a prior marriage in college so his expected contribution came out to a minimal couple thousand, got married over the holidays, a surprise. To someone making six figures and living to every cent of them and more. You know what that does to an expected contribution? Then the step sis decided not to go back to college–joined the military. Alll of this in between time of the estimated PROFILE and the actual award. They could not afford that school, but were clueless until the actual financial aid package reflecting all changes came out. You have to remember that most people going through this process don’t know it like those of us on this board, not even close. Kid took a gap term (another mistake) and is now going locally to college. The thing that really stinks is, that he would have gotten a free ride at the colege he is attending, had he stuck it out with them and not withdrawn his app. When he asked to be reconsidered the merit money was gone, and they would not give it to him the second time around. None of the counselors involved gave the family the advice they needed through all of this.</p>
<p>And Rebel, you are singing the chorus line that is what makes these kids apply ED. Read the reasons why. You don’t always get the best deal and you don’ t know it when you apply ED. Maybe you’lll get $10K more from WIlliams than from Amherst, but if you applied ED to Amherst you don’t know. You are told by Everyone, and truthfully so that A gives some of the best aid ever, etc , etc. You get a package that might be barely doable, having no idea that there might be a better deal for you, and you try to squeeze by, because you have a first choice bird in hand with a package that is close. You don’t want to give it up for a maybe. The momentum and pressure is for you to take it and that 's what you really really want. But, some of the differences that can be there in these package are very real, especially those who are in high need. $10K difference in like schools is a lot for anyone. </p>
<p>Your mantra is why the ED train rolls on and each year some kids and families get burned. Also, a lot of kids happily and cluelessly forge through and have a lot of problems later with a package that is border line doable. Easy to say the commitment and sacrifice will be made in the euphoria of acceptance. It’s a 4 year sentence, baby. You can do heavy crime and do less time than that, and we’re talking about a family having to scrimp big time during those years.</p>
<p>Hi CPT, Thats the choice people are torn by. Do I give up the advantage of higher admit rates in Ed ??,knowing I won’t get to compare offers. It’s a tough call.There is still no downside to applying ED. You can look at the aid pkg and decline it if you deem it not enough.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse - Point taken. But you’re still describing families with resources, available or not, significantly beyond the family in my hypothetical. </p>
<p>Take away the real property investments, the retirement accounts, and the ex who marries a woman wearing diamonds. Consider instead a family that can fill out Profile in under a half-hour because the answer to most, if not all, of the questions really is zero.</p>
<p>And then take away the merit aid schools and the schools that include loans in their packages, and focus on the schools that meet full need without loans. For the kid in this financial situation, who has the stat’s to get into one or more of these schools, where is the downside of ED? And you know as well as I do that having the stat’s to get into these schools is no guarantee of admission . . . so the extra little “push” from ED might be what makes the difference. So, for this family - yes or no?</p>
<p>The real problem isn’t ED, but in how people treat it. The ED agreement states you won’t apply ED to any other schools, and that you will withdraw your applictions at other schools. The real problem is with students who put all their hope into the ED school, and don’t spend the time preparing other applications, just in case. Just in case they don’t get in, AND just in case the aid is not adequate. If they can’t afford to be full pay, they should be preparing those other applications, because any number of things could happen.</p>
<p>If there is a family business, they need to communicate with the FA office up front, and ask for a better estimate. If they have to wait for it to be calculated, they need to communicate with the other schools where they are applying. It may be possible to keep from having their other applications purged if they explain the situation - they’re not violating the ED agreement if they don’t have enough information to make an informed decision about whether the FA package is adequate.</p>
<p>The idea of having a financial safety as a backup is as important to them as anyone else, maybe moreso.</p>