<p>
</p>
<p>Wow, is this ever true...</p>
<p>I have an extended family member who graduated magna cum laude from Carleton with some sort of humanities degree several years ago. She never was able to get a job related to her degree. She's bouncing around odd jobs aimlessly at this point, with a significant amount of college debt and now credit card debt on top of that. It's not a pretty picture... :(</p>
<p>Jiffsmom, that is a shame. I met someone recently whose D graduated last year from an Ohio public majoring in history, and also could not get a job. She has been working at a bookstore. Her solution is to go to graduate school and major in more history. Her goal is to work in a museum.</p>
<p>Unfortunately there is a certain amount of evasion or duplicity in which the collegiate business does tend to give students a grossly inflated estimate of their future incomes.
For example, my field is in the humanities. When visiting another institution (a large university) a Dean told a touring student contingent that there were college teaching postings just waiting for them, with an ensured large income. Now in that field the placement rate for those who do attain full time college teaching jobs is...3-10%. And many work as adjuncts. When the current tenure people retire, won't matter because their positions will not be replaced by like openings.
And its difficult for teaching staff to counteract this kind of illusionary marketing, because the weight of the numbers game. So the students are in a qaundry because its very difficult for ethical staff to tell them their real chances. And within the system its very hard to directly explain the real game, because one will soon be outside the system if it is done.</p>
<p>My cousin's son is 24 and graduating with his masters in history. He's abandoned his plans for a phd and is now going to take classes to get certified to teach high school history. Luckily for him, he's lived at home his entire college life and his mom has paid for everything (she's a doctor) so he has no debt, and no job .. yet...</p>
<p>And perhaps he will make an exemplary history teacher. Seems like a good plan to me. (why do we think kids at 24 should have figured it all out and been done with it already?)</p>
<p>yeah, I guess I forget that because by that age I had lived entirely on my own for 7 years...</p>
<p>Well, I was married and with a kid by 24, so I totally am there with you. but, I'm glad my 25 year old is not.</p>
<p>Sueinphilly...</p>
<p>Very fortunate your cousins kid avoided the pitfalls of debt, and unfortunate he had to redirect his plans for a Phd. Ironically, as you noted, in most areas he would not be allowed to teach (despite the grad degree) until taking a year or so of 100,200 level education courses.
And the NEA has become very concerned about the SL and teacher income issue. Earlier this year they wrote an courageous essay about the dilemma. Might advise him to check on this article, it might help in comprehended the dilemma his compatriots are experiencing.</p>
<p>Is it just the domestic job market?</p>
<p>Because I'm assuming worldwide there's a large demand for college-level positions, especially in the developing world. But anyway.</p>
<p>Because I'm assuming worldwide there's a large demand for college-level positions, especially in the developing world. But anyway.</p>
<p>It depends- A friend of older Ds taught high school for several years after he graduated from high school, in a small Micronesian island. Younger D is going to be teaching for a short while after * she* graduates from high school in Africa, and she is going to be paying what the students pay for room and board ( but as a rich american, she feels it is appropriate- I do too)
I don't think developing countries pay a lot- so a college degree isn't going to necessarily get you a better position.</p>
<p>I am sure it depends on the field however- I know several people here who have degrees from abroad, who are driving taxis or buses because the US doesn't recognize their degree. On the other hand we locate companies abroad because there are more skilled workers to pick from. I wouldn't call Ireland or India developing countries though.</p>
<p>*Wow, is this ever true...</p>
<p>I have an extended family member who graduated magna cum laude from Carleton with some sort of humanities degree several years ago. She never was able to get a job related to her degree. She's bouncing around odd jobs aimlessly at this point, with a significant amount of college debt and now credit card debt on top of that. It's not a pretty picture..*</p>
<p>We have one, only her degree is from Colgate and she graduated summa ;</p>
<p>
[quote]
Other than home ownership, what is the most important monetary investment you will make in your life?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Retirement savings are way, way up there in importance. You can wait on home ownership, but waiting to start squirreling away money for retirement is going to make a big difference to how much is in the pot at the end. </p>
<p>There's obviously a tradeoff if you're entering a profession where there will be 7 lean years followed by multiples of 7 of very, very fat years. But I'd think that having so much college debt that you can't make those other investments (retirement, house fund) is problematic in many cases.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well, I was married and with a kid by 24, so I totally am there with you. but, I'm glad my 25 year old is not.
[/quote]
BINGO!!
garland - Are you my twin?<br>
I am especially glad since my 25 year old is living in my basement paying off her student loans.</p>
<p>The exodus for Americans with degrees is likely to continue. As noted, however, there can be problems in getting credentials transfered.
What some are doing, to respond to a poor job market, and the pressures of the SL debt/industry, is taking out of country work. However, much of this is in the ESL schools in places such as China, Korea, and etc, which can pay poorly, or sometimes ensure short contracts. And those who take this route, will still face the problems when they get back. And it seems that those who go Peace Corp may only get deferments rather than forgiveness. In addition to being paid very poorly.
And other countries are beginning to close down on the number of educated American's who are emigrating. In Canada for example, many teaching jobs are now specifying citizenship preferences. And the Canadian government has made agreements to enforce US SL debt judgments. (Montana was even floating a proposal to deny driver licenses to those who owe money, some Montana people were heading over and not coming back)
The whole situation is leading to a form of economically driven brain drain.</p>
<p>But of course! People here want to keep all the low-skill positions and protest their export to India or other developing nations. They wonder why this is not making any economic sense. </p>
<p>I'm 17 -- I don't want to be thinking about retirement. In fact, I don't really see a reason to stop working ...</p>
<p>Sometimes retirement is forced-
you know how many engineers that have been displaced when their companies folded or moved elsewhere?
How easy is it to find another job at 48 or 56 years old?
Next time you are in Home Depot, ask those workers what they were doing 5 years ago.
Illness, Injury can also force retirement.
My mother who was a clerk, in a large company had to retire when fumes from the factory made her ill, she hasn't ever recovered.
My brother in law who had several graduate degrees has an uncanny knack for picking companies that are bought out by others & lay off half the staff.
Or they go bankrupt.
He had the luck to be the regional CFO for two companies that went bankrupt ( connection? ), and this was after he had taken much of his pay as stock options in an attempt to help them get started.
In his late 50s- he is now selling insurance, a field where you really need to start younger as income adds up from repeat business.</p>
<p>You don't want to take out more loans than you need to.</p>
<p>When my father passed away in his 50s, he died in bankruptcy frm credit cards and loans.
He was not holding a high paying job, and all his savings we used to pay up loans and the mortgage. So every time I hear the word loans and debts, I feel really tired and fed up. Debt is not a pretty picture especially when the family is left to pick up the pieces.</p>
<p>Sky Girl, you are picking up on of the more destructive aspects of the current SL structure here in the US. Essentially, as I and others have noted, the US collegiate system has been co-opted by financiers. And as noted this group of financiers has so invaded government policies that there are virtually no protections for students. Including the very difficult option of bankruptcy. Ironic, and demonstrative of how corrupt this system has become...today one of the largest underwriters of student loans has been permitted to file for bankruptcy protections.
What has happened is that these financial cabals have established special 'rules' for themselves which essentially condemn students to a lifetime of often impossible to pay debt. And it has had a substantially detrimental effect on society, as many do do little but struggle to pay a predatory debt load, but it has had other more extreme effects, including suicides, broken marriages, and the many who increasingly have given up and are forced to opt out of society.
It doesn't have to be like this, other countries fund students by more reasonable means. Australia for example, has a program wherein students do borrow for education, but only so much percentage of the a persons income can be taken for SL. Additionally after a set number of years, with good faith payments, the debt is forgiven.
Our our system, even death is not enough for the SL debt to end, its not unknown for these companies to pressure the families of borrowers who have died to appalling levels. Including the cases where a borrower has killed themselves out of despair.
We have allowed the promise of education in our society to be stained by profiteers, and if nothing is done that education system will either collapse or become once again only possible for the privilaged few.</p>
<p>One solution to this problem might be a good, old-fashioned boycott. For one year, the nation's high school seniors would go on strike and refuse to apply to college. </p>
<p>Just think... for one year, there would be no college application fees paid to colleges, no tuition and room & board payments collected by colleges, no college loans issued, and no freshman textbooks sold. </p>
<p>In one year, the Educational-Financial Complex could be brought to its money-grubbing knees. </p>
<p>I make this suggestion with my tongue firmly in my cheek, but just think....</p>
<p>Yeah, getting a masters at 24 with no debt is nice. I do find it strange that he has never had any type of job, ever. </p>
<p>i don't think he'd want to teach overseas. He's never lived away from home. Nice kid, don't get me wrong, but he's not going to move halfway around the world for a job, imo.</p>
<p>Now if he was going to be a math or science teach I would say his opportunities are a lot better... </p>
<p>I think by the time my son finishes college the COA is going to be about equal to my annual (gross) salary, it's already way over my net salary. I'm paying all my EFC + out of savings and current income and he's taking whatever perkins and stafford loans he can. He got a large scholarship that I refer to as winning the college lottery, it brought a $50K school down to 20K (which was doable with the loans and my savings)</p>
<p>Lord, please let me live long enough to have this thing people refer to as "disposable income". </p>
<p>I bought a new shirt last week. Had a coupon for $10 off any purchase at fashion bug. I bought a shirt for $1.98. Whoopee new spring clothes!</p>
<p>Oh well, that's all called a decline in status...sueinphilly laudably exerts the efforts and sacrifices to improve her kids education. And this success despite, the absurd cost of higher education...and so has cause to celebrate when buying a shirt.
Myself and many of my educated collegues, products and minions of the educational system...often live from harassing phone call to phone call...and exist on the same rapturous diet of ramen noodles, rice or beanie weanies which sustained us through graduate school...
In the meantime, SM, made a billion dollars last year. And despite a court order from the NYS attorney general to cease and desist, is still providing 'free' services in the college financial aid offices. And other companies have been allowed to keep the 1/2 billion dollars that they overbilled the federal government.</p>