So You Want To Be Music Major - One Family's Experience

College Majors Music Major
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<p>We also have had the experience of starting with a fairly long list of possible schools that has ended up being shorter (although I would not say it is “short”, by non-music major–or non-CC–standards). We weeded schools off the list if: </p>

<p>A. We were unable to contact or set up a lesson with the faculty member S would be studying with. In a few cases (Peabody, Northwestern–at least at the time we were initially looking) it became obvious that the jazz trumpet instructor is “non-resident”, which made it almost impossible to set up a sample lesson. Also, S feels he wouldn’t get the best possible experience from that kind of situation (although Oberlin is an exception to that, but more on that later). Other people have said this, but I’ll say it again–your musician really needs to think about the reality of going to a school that boasts a “name” faculty member who is still actively involved in a performance career. They may really only be on campus a few times a year for lessons. And that may be OK, but find that out before you commit to a school.</p>

<p>B. We visited the school and S got a bad vibe, or didn’t like the school in general. Northwestern left him cold. Bard felt like “a farm” to him (he’s an urban kid and Bard is kind of remotely located). But this is why I insisted we visit several schools, so that was OK.</p>

<p>C. We had several schools on the initial list that we ended up weeding because they were the wrong “kind” of school for S. S decided fairly early on that he wasn’t really interested in a large university, even if the music school was good and he could double-major. So no Indiana, UNT, Rutgers. He can always go to a big school for grad school (which is definitely on the agenda if he’s going the physics route). </p>

<p>IMO it’s very important to visit. My S fell in love with Oberlin when we first visited the campus, even tho it’s in the middle of nowhere (by Chicago standards) and the jazz trumpet faculty situation seems a little unsettled at the moment. But he seems to feel that the rest of the jazz program is strong and challenging enough to make up for that. And he can major in physics as well (assuming he’s accepted, of course :P). We also visited Reed (on a whim, we were in Portland to visit Lewis and Clark), and he really connected with the academic vibe there and they have a top-notch physics program, even though the music isn’t as strong as a conservatory program would be. A visit can also help you cut through the school’s marketing information to the reality of things. S was initially interested in the University of Chicago, but a frank discussion with staff in the music department there helped him realize that it would be a better choice for grad school.</p>

<p>It’s also important to have a lesson, and to shadow a class or two. S had a great lesson with John Daniels at Lawrence, which put it high on the list as well. Although he hasn’t connected with the jazz trumpet guy at Oberlin, he’s shadowed an improvisation class and the jazz band practice session and had good experiences there. </p>

<p>IMO the way the school and the faculty handle these requests for sample lessons and pre-application contact says something about the school. All Peabody could tell us about the jazz trumpet instructor was that he “didn’t live in Maryland”. That is a red flag, IMO. We’re hoping if S passes the prescreens that he can have lessons at NEC and Oberlin during the audition process. </p>

<p>He’s also applied to a couple of schools that are safeties (even musically, he’s coming from a conservatory high school and unless he really blows the audition he should be fine). These are small liberal arts colleges with decent-to-good music programs. He’s already been accepted to one (academically, he’ll audition for the music department in January), and has applied and will audition for the second later in January. The first school is the one which employs me, so I both have a good idea of what the music department is like and he could attend tuition-free, which makes it a great safety. The second is an in-state regionally known school with a decent jazz program in the “building stages”. </p>

<p>As an aside, I sometimes feel that these discussions here on CC (and not just in the music forum) focus too exclusively on the conservatories and the “name” schools. There’s a good possibility that a strong music student can have a great, challenging, career-building experience at a smaller, non-name school. The music department at the school where I work is very connected to the Chicago jazz scene, and students do go on to careers as professional musicians. Even though it’s not Julliard :P. So my advice would be to seek out a couple of these schools as well. </p>

<p>S is ending up applying to 9 schools (including Oberlin twice). There’s a range of schools, from two dual-degree schools (Oberlin and Lawrence), one stand-alone conservatory (NEC) and it’s dual-degree partner school (Tufts), two excellent liberal arts colleges with decent music programs (Reed and Vassar), one mid-size university with a school of music (DePaul), one small regional university with the “building” jazz program (Bradley), and his “safety” (Elmhurst). </p>

<p>We just sat down last week and figured the audition schedule, and frankly I’m very glad he’s not applying to more. The other consideration here is that S wants to do both music and physics, and he is aiming at schools where he (hopefully) won’t have to pick one or the other. </p>

<p>Anyway, that’s my 2 cents, FWIW. This has been an almost three-year process for us, and I can’t wait til it’s over with.</p>

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<p>Some “non-resident” instructors are quite amenable to sample lessons. If the situation seems stable and you can find out contact info for them, by all means try to contact them and see if they are willing - we’ve had pretty good luck.</p>

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<p>Thanks trumpetguysmom–lots of useful info–I appreciate it. Its amazing how much thought and effort we all put into this process. At some point it would be great to create a road map for music majors with recommended time frames for parents/students to follow. For instance time frame for completion of school list (final), when is best time to contact colleges for campus visits and potential lessons, time frame for visits and lessons (generally between Xdate and Ydate)–general time frame for scholarship applications and school apps–generally when do auditions begin and end. My S is a junior and I am already realizing I better get going on a final list and try and arrange some visits for this spring if possible. I thought I was way ahead of the game but it seems that’s not the case. I would be interested in anyone’s input on the above as obviously everyone’s experience is different.</p>

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<p>chandelle, yes, I imagine that there are situations in which an instructor is findable and amenable for sample lessons. We didn’t have that luck, though, and even if we did, I would say that the scheduling factor may be more complicated when you are trying to work around the time complications of when someone is on campus, when they have time, etc. In the case of geographically distant schools, a student (and their family) may not have unlimited amounts of time and other resources to travel multiple times to a campus for visits, tours, auditions, lessons, etc. It’s really all about what the trade-offs are. It might be that for some students (some instruments?) the value of having that person as an instructor outweighs the logistics, hassle, etc.</p>

<p>S is just really hoping he gets past the Oberlin pre-screen and that Sean Jones will be available audition weekend for a lesson.</p>

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<p>GREAT thread. Bumping it back to the forefront.</p>

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<p>Just a quick update on our experience with college visits. Lawrence was our first stop and S was impressed with the percussion professor. Did not get a lesson but did meet and speak with us for over an hour and seemed keen to have my S come back again. The facilities were a bit run down and my S was worried about the size of the school which has fewer students then his current high school. I thought the academic program was very progressive.
Indiana was beautiful and we just had a perfect weekend weather wise which really does make a difference (it was cold for Lawrence visit). John Tafoya was really giving with his time and also spent about an hour with my S. He also had a quick lesson which was really interesting (we got to watch). I can really see how important it is to get an idea/impression of teaching style etc to see if there is some compatibility. I am kind of amazed how much time the professors will spend with some random stranger who calls or emails and asks to see them. My son loved the campus and was really impressed. I would say it is currently his top choice but as we know that can change with the wind…Oberlin is next…
Really starting to worry about how to pay for all this once he does decide. We are talking about second and third schools but finding that a lot of the schools are in the same price range. Really looking for a good value out there and not just the best school by some magazine rating…My S has a 35 on the ACT and decent grades (3.3 gpa)–assuming he IS as talented as he thinks he is, might there be competition for his stats at a lesser school that still might provide a good education but might offer an excellent scholorship? If finances are the big concern than might that be a better road? Thoughts?</p>

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<p>The way financial aid works out (artistic merit based, academic merit based and need based) the list price does not mean a whole lot. You don’t really know what price range you are talking about until the numbers come in, quite often after the acceptances.</p>

<p>It does help to have a financial safety or two, and that can be a school where the sticker price is low to begin with (possibly an in-state public or an out-of-state public that offers in-state rates to those who get even small music scholarships, for example University of North Texas). Another approach is to apply to lower-tier schools where your son is more likely to be among the most talented to audition, thus most likely to be offered the best possible music scholarship. Still another is to look at schools that offer automatic scholarships based on GPA and test scores.</p>

<p>Auditioning at the dream schools is well and good, but must be done with the caveat that matriculation will only happen if the finances work out. That is a talk that students and parents should have before the applications get filled out. Of the schools you mention, I know that Oberlin meets 100% of demonstrated need without piling on the loans. I don’t have direct experience with the others.</p>

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Yes, receiving the financial aid package (which can come in weeks, or even months, in the case of EA or rolling admissions) is the penultimate piece of the puzzle. Then you sit down with the COA (cost of attendance) figures and the finaid offers and see where you are. It’s true that state schools often offer discounts for kids with high standardized test scores and GPAs. Most schools also offer talent grants. And don’t assume that you will receive the same “need-based” aid from all schools-- in my experience, need-based aid is all over the place.</p>

<p>But it’s not finished yet. If your son has a clear first choice school and the financial aid package is significantly lower than that of his other schools, you can spend the month of April appealing his aid decision. It varies from school to school, but in my experience, if you make it clear that the school is his true first choice, but his aid package is insupportable, the financial aid committee will revisit this case and possibly increase either his talent aid or his scholarship (or at least throw in some extras, like work-study.) My best advice is to cast a wide net, including (if possible) an in-state financial safety, just in case. But don’t limit your quest to affordable schools based on sticker price, as the actual cost of the school will not be known to you until much closer to May 1 next year. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Yes indeed. Thanks for pointing that out, glassharmonica.</p>

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<p>Thanks for that input!!
One other concern is the fact that I heard that the aid package for some schools can sometimes be front loaded to draw you to the school–and then subsequent years are less leaving you with little choice but to take additional loans or transfer…is this more rumor than fact? Does anyone have thoughts on this issue?</p>

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<p>I have also seen reports that some colleges offer larger incentives for the first year only. In my experience, it is more usual for the amount of an award to stay the same while the pre-aid cost of attendance goes up 5% or so from one year to the next. Considering that the sticker price can easily be $50,000 to $60,000 these days, a few successive 5% increases creates a front loaded situation even if the aid is not intentionally decreased.</p>

<p>When you receive an offer of aid, it should include information on whether or not a particular award is renewable, for how many years and under what conditions (minimum GPA, participation in ensembles, satisfactory progress toward degree, etc.) It is basically a matter of reading the fine print and asking detailed questions of the financial aid office so that you can come up with an overall plan rather than thinking one year at a time.</p>

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<p>Bassdad I always love hearing your words of wisdom. You mentioned something that got my attention and I wonder if there is already a thread on it, or if not, if you can suggest a list. That is, which good music schools will offer in state tuition to out of state students, depending on how well they audition and if their grades are decent (but not necessarily spectactular). And which schools are a “great deal” for those who are happy to go to a very good music school that is more affordable, rather than going into a lifetime of debt in a profession that might not be able to pay it back!!! I know that our own in state colleges are a good deal but my S does not want to stay in our state after graduation so is keen to look in other states which are more likely to have jobs when he graduates</p>

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<p>In Louisiana, we have a small university between Baton Rouge and New Orleans, Southeastern University, that offers automatic scholarships based on ACT and GPA. This is very rare of universities and I can personally boast that there is a great music department. I know many music grads including my past 2 choir directors, and they are phenomenal! I’ve also attended many performances of the music department. It’s nice to know that I already have a full ride waiting for me should I decide to attend there. You can’t say that about most colleges.</p>

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<p>Happy to find this thread.</p>

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<p>NYsaxmom, I am not aware of any such thread or list. I believe University of North Texas offers in-state rates to all students who are awarded any artistic scholarship, even if that scholarship is only for say $1000 per year. Of course, even their regular out of state rates are pretty low in comparison to many other top music schools. There are also some public universities that have reciprocal agreements with neighboring states such that students from those states either get in-state rates or a substantial reduction from out-of-state rates. This is something that you would have to investigate school by school unless someone else here is aware of a list.</p>

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<p>@NYsaxmom~</p>

<p>I’m not aware of a master list of public schools that waive out-of-state tuition, either, but I did want to confirm BassDad’s info about UNT. UNT offers in-state tuition rates to any out-of-state student receiving a scholarship of at least $1,000 from the University, and it doesn’t just have to be an artistic scholarship. My D will begin Jazz Voice at UNT this fall, but she did not receive money from the music department, rather she received $5,000 in academic scholarships, which was sufficient to earn her the in-state tuition rate. My understanding is that the tuition waiver benefit is offered by all of the Texas public universities. </p>

<p>My D was adamant about getting out of state, too, and like you we have some pretty decent music programs in-state (though only UNC-Asheville has vocal jazz, and it is still quite small) and terrific options for non-music pursuits (a la UNC-CH, which D was accepted to but passed on for the chance to major in jazz). All of her best opportunities were out of state. D chose UNT over Belmont and Frost School of Music because of the “great deal” that the in-state tuition offer presented. It’s saving us $20,000 and $30,000 per year, respectively, over those other 2 schools, and was simply an opportunity that she couldn’t pass up. </p>

<p>Good luck in your quest to find the right fit for your sax player!</p>

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<p>Absolutely. S applied to 10 schools, 4 of which were audition situations. 2 of those were public.</p>

<p>ALL of the private schools final COA was lower than the two state schools. We do qualify for some need-based aid, but the merit aid offered, whether for music or for academics (and S doesn’t have as high stats as you list), were significant. </p>

<p>BGSU, for instance, offered basically nothing but loans and a $3K grant per year, leaving us with a $20K+ COA for the first year.</p>

<p>The private school he ultimately chose (Capital U’s music conservatory) has a $40K sticker price but is costing less than $10K after scholarships and need-based grants were given. The audition-based scholarship info came with his acceptance to the conservatory, the need-based info not until spring. All is renewable with basic conditions.</p>

<p>So you just never know. In the midwest a lot of well regarded private schools will give significant merit aid to qualified students and in some cases musical scholarships. Wooster, Denison, DePauw (has a con), Oberlin, Earlham, etc.</p>

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<p>Because of a very generous merit award and grants, my son will be attending Oberlin Conservatory with our outlay being less than Texas in-state tuition. Don’t dismiss the private schools based on list price. In the era of state budget cuts, the private schools can be a much better value!</p>

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<p>NYsaxmom,
Just wanted to confirm what BassDad and shesings94 said about UNT, if you are awarded at least a $1,000 scholarship, you get in-state tuition. My son, based on his ranking in his HS class and his ACT score, was offered a $3000/yr academic scholarship which got him in-state tuition even though his main purpose is to get a Jazz Studies degree. His tuition plus dorm housing this past freshman year was under $15K, not bad for the oldest (and a prestigous) university jazz program. I recall you said in another thread that your son had reservations about being in Texas, just wanted to reassure you that many of the music school students are from out-of-state or other countries, so your child will not feel like a fish out of water. Now the heat there is something else, though :-).</p>

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<p>@ jazztrombone mom…he’s a 17 year old boy so even though he thinks he knows everything, he doesn’t know what’s good for him :slight_smile: And my next child going through this process is a trombone player!
Thank you all for the info…keep it coming!!</p>