So You Want To Be Music Major - One Family's Experience

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Dustinb23,</p>

<p>Your experience is a concern that I have with programs that have fine graduate programs, especially state schools. I believe that at times undergraduates do not get the attention they should get, that most of the faculty time and energy is spent on the graduate students. </p>

<p>But it is interesting that your post states that the school is more concerned about the faculty. It is important for the the faculty to perform, to use their talents for the school for a variety of reasons. But the faculty need to perform should not take precedent over the students, undergrad or graduate.</p>

<p>I would think that CCM performs musicals and operas using the students. Has your son auditioned for these? There are many chorus roles for students that are not cast in the solo spots in these productions.</p>

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<p>I don't know a thing about voice - my comments are more general in nature. From reading these boards, I have realized there is a great deal of variation in what kind of voice program to choose. I have always thought of most of the conservatories as "opera" schools for voice. But now I know there are choir schools, jazz schools, musical theater schools, etc. It sounds to me like your S prefers more of a soloist focus? Does he want to sing opera? Does he want to be a pop star? Nightclub singer? </p>

<p>I know that singer's "instruments" mature later, and grad school study is common. Maybe solo parts in operas often go to the older students for this reason. Perhaps if your S can finish his degree there, and spend the time figuring out exactly what kind of vocal music he wants to do, then he can choose a more fulfilling graduate program.</p>

<p>I am curious if he has taken his concerns to his teacher, and what the teacher says about it. It does sound like your S is talented - admission to three good programs. Your comments about CCM surprise me, because, as you say, they have a great reputation, and it doesn't seem like that would come by ignoring the students. How is their placement in grad schools and jobs for vocalists?</p>

<p>Are the other students equally frustrated? Is it possible that, after getting such accolades early on, your S is having a hard time being one of a group of good singers, as opposed to the best? That seems to happen often to bright students who end up at selective schools, and suddenly are middle of the pack (or less.) (No offense intended, just brainstorming.)</p>

<p>My S, who is an instrumentalist, creates a lot of his own performance ops by actively seeking out gigs. He has not played a single solo at school in his 3+ years there, except at Master Classes and such. He gets those at summer programs, local churches, and things of his own design. I wonder if there are voice programs out there who have lots of solo ops for undergrads/ underclassmen?</p>

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<p>Like binx, I have limited knowledge of what constitutes a great vocal program. My son as well is an instrumentalist. From an instrumental standpoint, solo performances such as concertos with orchestra at my son's school were awarded based on competition or reserved for guest artists. Solo passages within the standard orchestral repetoire went to the principals, which were normally not rotated. There were plenty of opportunities for the top players to consistently be involved in performing ensemble and chamber works, student and faculty compositions, and collaborative work for required recitals. The top players on instruments were often so widely in demand that saying "no" to a specific additonal committment became almost mandatory, as the premier performers found themselves overextended.</p>

<p>binx brings up some good points- voice maturity, relative standing within the talent pool, addressing specific concerns directly with the instructor. Is it only your son or do the bulk of students on the whole feel this way? Is it certain studios that feel this?</p>

<p>Is the program structured (look at the student handbook, course catalog- whatever the operative documents are) to provide opportunities? How are these awarded, allocated? Are certain activities restricted to upperclassmen or only on studio teacher's recommendations? This is normally defined somewhere procedurally, and it's important to know specifics before committing to a program. Not all programs are right for all people.</p>

<p>No real answers in the above... just some thoughts and things to consider.</p>

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<p>Oberlin is pretty much undergrad only, so there are lots of solo opportunities both vocal and instrumental for undergrads. A handful of students there seek master's degrees in specialized programs and there are none at all at the doctoral level. From what I hear, their voice program is very much opera oriented.</p>

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<p>The prototypical undergraduate ensemble experience is choir. Singing in a choir requires blending. Chamber singing usually means early music, which requires less vibrato for stylistic reasons. An opera school may only accept undergrads to keep NASM spectrum of degrees and to populate the opera choruses, with rare exceptions. Young singers should not be singing heavy roles or long roles. Scenes and cameo roles are more appropriate. For singers to be comfortable with this discipline-imposed conflict, there needs to be lots of trust and communication with the teacher, and through the studio mates an awareness of the hierarchy of age and development. Those seem to be the missing ingrediants here.</p>

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<p>BassDad, This was great to read. I'm curious: was there a reason your D did not apply to Manhattan?</p>

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<p>She did not really connect with any of the teachers at Manhattan.</p>

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<p>Hey BassDad - How much does it matter to have prestigious music profs when you're applying to grad school to get a PhD in music?</p>

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<p>My oldest is still an undergrad. I don't know anything about PhD or DMA programs in music. In fact, I plan on letting my daughter sort that out for herself should she decide to go that route.</p>

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<p>Of course it helps to have prestigious musicologists recommend you for graduate school in musicology; it helps especially if it is a very strong recommendation.</p>

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<p>Rather, I guess my question is will it hurt to have music profs that don't have the celebrity status that some have at the Ivy league?</p>

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<p>The Ivy League does not have a monopoly on "prestigious" musicologists; the recent head of the American Musicological Society, for example, teaches at UC Davis. Think about it: PhD's from Harvard, Columbia, UC Berkeley, Princeton, and Penn don't all go on to teach at those few schools; in fact, few do. There are excellent professors all over the country, and many have great connections with the top graduate schools. On the other hand, it is a big advantage to go to the top graduate schools, which include those listed. And take a look at the list of graduate students now at Harvard: there are as many who went to Oberlin as to any Ivy League school as undergraduates and some went to conservatories.</p>

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<p>Great musicologists are located all over the USA.They are on staff at all different types on institutions. D picked her grad program b/c of the chance to work with a well known musicologist on the faculty at Wash U in St Louis, after using his books for her undergrad thesis research and contacting him and getting to know him.You don't neccesarily pick your graduate institution for the "prestige factor" but where faculty are working who share your area of research interest who are in need of grad students. The musicologists on staff at her undergrad institution helped tremendously with mentoring and contacts (everyone knew someone who knew someone else,etc).Now in her 3rd year of the PhD, she already has contacts all over due to being active in the professional society for musicologists (AMS),attending the annual conference where everyone comes together, serving on a committee,etc.She also has friends who have finished the PhD and moved on to faculty positions.</p>

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<p>If you have a choice of graduate schools, among the factors to consider are: how much money they offer you in fellowships (don't get into debt -- it takes years to get through these programs); the prestige of the school; the prestige of the faculty you would work with. The job market is extremely competitive.</p>

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<p>I'm actually talking about undergraduate institutions.</p>

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<p>From rcmama's post on the "How many VP students find the jobs they sought" post: <here's an="" interesting="" article="" from="" 2004="" called="" "the="" juilliard="" effect:="" ten="" years="" later"="" http:="" www.nytimes.com="" 12="" ar...&oref="s" login=""></here's></p>

<p>Indeed a sobering article, and my repost is not meant to discourage anyone. I do feel it is definately worth a read and serious reflection for anyone considering a performance path.</p>

<p>Relinking it here should provide a bit more accessibility.</p>

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<p>That article is worth reading, but I'd like to offer one caveat: it's the JUILLIARD effect, not the conservatory effect. The article does a poor job of exploring particular aspects of the school itself that might contribute to its dismal employment outcomes and distinctly unhappy student body. CIM and Rice can both boast much better rates of alumni employment in the field. And "cold" could hardly describe a place like Oberlin!
The article doesn't distinguish enough between characteristics of Juilliard and characteristics of conservatories in general.</p>

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<p>Juilliard has it's share of faults. My middle kid goes there. My other two kids went to two other (non-conservatory) schools, and those weren't perfect either. I honestly can't say Juilliard is worse. Juilliard has given my S exactly what he thought he was getting. Our complaints have more to do with administration - stuff like housing - than with the education he has gotten. As he is a senior now, it is too early to comment on his post-grad experiences. If he had to do it all over again, he says he would do it the same way.</p>

<p>This article is now 14 years old. I think it has some valuable perspectives in it, and it is worth reading simply to clarify your own goals, expectations, and possible outcomes.</p>

<p>But I would be careful about generalizing. I would go further than saying it's the "Juilliard effect" and say it is the experience of some of the grads 14 years ago who all happened to go to the same school. I don't think it is an indictment of Juilliard, or of any other conservatory. It's the nature of the beast, of being a music performance major. If you want guarantees, you're in the wrong field. I liked this quote:</p>

<p>
[quote]
He tells this joke: "How do you get a musician to complain? Give him a job. How do you keep him complaining? Give him a better job."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>One graduate says, </p>

<p>
[quote]
But she hated Juilliard from the start. "It was cold," she said. "It was professional. That's what it's supposed to be. I was not ready for that."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This one statement (1 student of 44, from 14 years ago) does not automatically mean that Juilliard is cold. But Juilliard admittedly doesn't do a lot of hand-holding. Reading through the article, I think it's clear some of the students chose their school based on the "Ivy" syndrome, and not fit. </p>

<p>


</p>

<p>This is an impressive statistic; note they include teaching among their success stories. And they don't distinguish between full and part time. And they include voice majors, which the Juilliard article does not.</p>

<p>Rice, Shepherd School - I can't find any specific stats:

[quote]
Our graduates are represented across the world as premier musicians, successful entrepreneurs, and industry leaders in fields outside of music.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Here is an interesting article from Oberlin about double degree students:
Double</a> Duty Degree / Oberlin Alumni Magazine / Fall 2006

[quote]
Alumni records show that the ensuing careers of double-degree grads are split equally between music and other professions, particularly business, education, and science and medicine.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Here is the Bureau of Labor Statistic's report on musicians:
Musicians</a>, Singers, and Related Workers</p>

<p>And some basic economic facts about orchestra playing:
To</a> our music critic and journali

[quote]
The competition for the relatively few fulltime orchestra jobs is intense. For example, in 2003, there were 159 openings among the 4200 positions in ICSOM orchestras, and there were over 14,000 new graduates with music degrees entering the job market.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Here is an article based on the notion that a BM degree isn't wise. It seems mainly salary driven. Obviously, I disagree, but it's worth reading for perspective.
Working</a> Your Degree: Music - Nov. 3, 2000</p>

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<p>In the event the link doesn't work, here's rcmama's original post with a link that does. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1059774913-post5.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1059774913-post5.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>if you (or s or d) decide to go down the performance path. And you do need to have a PLAN B.</p>

<p>I think that too many people enter this with blinders on, or are given misdirection and/or false hope.</p>

<p>No matter what the level of talent, educational institution, master teachers, there's just too many variables.</p>

<p>Talent, skill, contacts, perserverance, temperment, luck all play their part.</p>

<p>No top flight conservatory/conservatory level music program is ever the perfect place for everyone.</p>

<p>Not every one understands that. </p>

<p>And part of it is how one defines success, one's raison d^etre. If you can't be complete without at least giving it "THE SHOT", you end up "what iffing" to the grave. As the Bard said, "Tis best to have loved and lost..."</p>

<p>High level skill on a musical instrument or a vocal talent takes years to develop, nurture and hone. There's virtually no chance of a high level professional performing career and a late start without a background of prior intensive training. Unfortunately, it's not a mid-life crisis career option. You really can't start late.</p>

<p>Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.</p>

<p>I take no umbrage for those wishing to burn my soapbox. :)</p>