<p>An interesting (to us, anyway) question came up at supper this evening. My older son attends a liberal arts college that is part of a large university. He belongs to a fraternity and lives in the the fraternity house this year. On weekend nights, he and his friends attend fraternity parties, hang out at the house, go to university athletic events and parties, etc. My younger son is a high school student who aspires to attend a conservatory. He wonders what sort of social life he might expect. Are there college or fraternity-type parties? What do students do on weekend nights? How do conservatory students typically socialize? What sorts of questions should he ask students in this regard when he visits schools? Thanks.</p>
<p>There is no large scale 'Greek' system, and there is no Division 1A NCAA culture that exists. However, college kids will be college kids no matter where they are, although conservatory students do tend to be a bit more self-proclaimed 'weird' than your typical big state school child. The same types of social groups and niches will definitely exist in a conservatory, but the small population at such places tend to make them feel like a microcosm of a large university.</p>
<p>The small size of conservatories (an incoming class size of 100 would be considered very large at most such schools) in my experience seems to ironically make them actually bigger 'melting pots' than a 30,000 population school. I think that at a large school, it is actually easier for someone to lay back and fall into a social nice or group and keep hanging out in the same circles with the same types of people as you are. At a conservatory where the population is too small for such niches to form on a large scale, you tend to become friends/acquaintances or at least meet and get to know just about every single person in your school. This is a huge blanket statement, but I know that when I look through my Facebook profiles of my friends at conservatories, they all seem to be interacting quite a lot with people of differing racial and social demographics because there just simply enough individuals there for them to 'phase out' their friends. On the contrary, the people I know who attend stereotypical big schools seem to have a lot more wall comments and party photo albums with kids from the same racial and social demographics as they are - because these schools are big enough for such circles to form.</p>
<p>If it is an aspect of college life that is important to your son, he might consider conservatories that are part of a larger university. DD finds that she has a very active social life outside the conservatory level music school at Rice. In fact, Rice scatters the music students throughout their college system so that there is an even distribution and it is easier to make friends with students outside music. DD is friends with every kind of major, from architects to pre-meds and liberal arts, in addiction to music students. The college system also provides a foundation for a social life. </p>
<p>That said, she does spend time going to concerts and recitals, but she is taking those other friends with her at times. A lot also depends on what instrument. Some require more hours in the practice room than others.</p>
<p>DS attended a large university with a conservatory type music program for undergrad and now attends a conservatory for grad school. His social life is fine. He has a lot of nice (music major) friends with similar interests. He plays on a touch football team, goes to concerts with friends, works out in the gym, attends yoga, has dinner socials with friends, goes on spring break trips, etc. No...there isn't a football team or Greek system, but there is plenty to do at a conservatory with students with similar interests. In undergrad school a lot of social time took place in the practice room area. My son has some great friends from both undergrad and grad schools...despite not attending sports events or being in a fraternity. If your student goes the conservatory route, he/she WILL have fun, have friends and have a social life.</p>
<p>Linde, I think this is a great consideration! After all, the student plans to spend 4 years of their life living in the conservatory situation - quite reasonable to want to know what that might "feel" like!</p>
<p>Based on conversations with a number of students at stand-alones (Juilliard, NEC, CIM, Peabody, etc) over a number of years, I think StephMin has a good read on the situations most students find. Most kids do find their niche and enjoy a social life appropriate to their own desires. Remember also that conservatory kids will have practice considerations that a liberal arts student doesn't have. Adding practice hours (and hours) to study time needed for academic course work leaves less time available for partying.</p>
<p>If your son is specifically interested in a stand-alone conservatory, but also in Greek life, he might be interested to know that because of the relationship between the Cleveland Institute of Music (CIM) and Case Western Reserve, CIM students are eligible to join Case fraternities, clubs and sports teams. I don't know the extent of Greek involvement by CIM students (I suspect it's limited - CIM sponsors its own social events for CIM students), but it is an option.</p>
<p>Regarding your question about what to ask students when visiting - I'd suggest that the parents leave the area and your S should bluntly ask what about the social/party scene - student to student!</p>
<p>I don't think my son necessarily aspires to a social life just like his brother's. Indeed, he has pointed out how his will likely be very different. I'm just asking what it's like. For example, when I ask my older son what he does on a typical Friday or Saturday night, he has a specific answer or menu of answers. My younger son was, in effect, asking the same question. </p>
<p>Judging from the many informative posts I've read here, and knowing my son, my guess is that he will hang out with the music types (or other artists if he's at a school with, e.g., a dance program) regardless of the type of university or college he will attend.</p>
<p>Linde this is so smart--we're in exactly the same situation here--S1 in a frat at a liberal arts college, S2 looking at conservatories. In our case, S2 really feels as though he "wants his cake and eat it too" and would ideally find his musical home in the context of a larger university--Oberlin, Northwestern, Columbia, McGill, Michigan, Tulane come to mind--some of which he's interested in and/or qualified for, others not so much. The extent to which even standalone conservatories (Peabody, Eastman, etc) meld their student bodies is of high interest to him, as well. It is definitely a consideration, and the Summer programs can really help a student figure out an environment they want to seek for college. I highly recommend seeking out summer programs at both universities and conservatories to help younger HS kids find their comfort zone. I know it really helped my son.</p>
<p>Because of logistics, kids at Peabody don't tend to party much with the JHU kids, but kids I have known at Peabody seem to be fine with the social scene at Peabody, but it is all relative. I don't know too many music majors who have time for the type of social life that other kids have. My daughter is in the music program at a university with a very active party scene but she practically lives in the music building and rarely finds the time or energy to do much partying. Maybe that will change some after freshman year, but she expects to be grateful when she just has time to watch a movie in her room.</p>
<p>I am a sophomore at Oberlin and I think it helps to have a college with the conservatory. There are always parties to be found somewhere on campus. If you aren't into the party scene there are cute little places to eat, concerts to attend (I'm pretty sure we have about 400 a year), an old-fashioned movie theater and then just hanging out with your friends. My dorm has a projector and we will sometimes get our RA to unlock it and watch movies on the big projector screen in the lounge. We also have a little dance club place called the 'Sco and the Feve is always crowded on the weekends. Cleveland is also about 30 minutes away by car and you also get to Crocker Park (also 30 min.) for really nice shopping.</p>
<p>I have a freshman at NEC, and his social life is different from the ones my two older ones have had with their university experiences. There are no campus parties, and he and his friends do not go to local colleges to attend their parties. As he says, down time is mostly taken up by playing ad hoc in groups--grab a practice room and jam. Saturday nights they have a gig at a local restaurant. There are about 40 freshman jazz students, so the whole department is a loose social group. He is immersed in music, which seems fine for him at this point in time. But, if you need other outlets then the conservatory life might be too single-tracked for you. It really is a unique environment that appeals to certain kids who can imagine doing nothing else. If you are looking for that stand alone conservatory life, I think that being in a big city enhances the experience--it's good to be able to get out and feel part of the larger music scene.</p>
<p>My son did his undergrad at Eastman. They have a music fraternity there that has it's own floor in the Eastman dorm. The party types tended to gravitate there. Son also played intramural soccer and ultimate against other teams at UR. He enjoyed hanging out with his friends and also frequented clubs in Rochester which have areas for the under 21 crowd. He loved hearing live bands. Conservatory students also attend a huge number of performances. Every time a friend has a recital, they go. Their primary teacher is playing? They are there. Famous musician is at the school giving a performance? Can't miss it! Anyway, you get the idea. And in his spare time, sleep became a top priority.</p>
<p>College isn't about parties</p>
<p>It's good to hear you say that, gms! It's not the parties per se that I think music students might find themselves missing. I am pretty sure they make their own parties in the off-campus apartments. If you don't have a single-minded interest in perfecting your musicianship, a stand-alone conservatory might not satisfy your social needs. The big highlights of their semester were the masterclasses--not the Fall Formal or Dance Marathon for charity. I know my older kids would really miss that stuff.</p>
<p>I have to say that I think my son is looking forward to immersing himself in an environment where there are a lot of kids just as interested in music, especially classical music, as he is. He is choosing a conservatory because he really wants to spend his time on his music and be around other people who love music too. That said, he is not uni-dimensional musically or in his interests (eg. he likes to play Go, juggles rather well, loves to contradance and cross-country ski, and I am working to teach him how to cook). As a result, an environment where there is some room to indulge some of these interests is attractive to him.</p>
<p>Also, longer haul, it is apparent that success in the musical world depends on your connections and relationships with other musicians. The first big place to start building that base of relationships is at a conservatory, both with faculty, other students and visiting musicians. I would imagine that that is the core aspect of a music students "social" life at school. If that level of intensity is uncomfortable, then I would suggest that a conservatory may not be the right place for a student. If there is a question, then the student should try a summer music program of at least 4 weeks to see whether or not this works for him/her.</p>
<p>My two cents!</p>
<p>Many of the conservatories, particularly on the east coast, have large numbers of international students, whose English may or may not be socially very fluent. There are pockets of these students whose communication skills are such that they are most comfortable socially with each other. In some instruments, but also with voice, this can be a huge proportion of ones peers. Ideally these students are not admitted unless their English language skills are excellent, but the testing process still depends on written and some aural prowess, and the oral communication skills are limited. Where S is, all of the graduate students in his section are international students, and their language issues limit social intercourse. It does make a difference in how younger players can learn and interact from their role models. It is difficult to understand their speech and comments, and the professional exchanges are limited. </p>
<p>I hesitate to post on this topic, but this is a real dilemma in the structure of how students learn within their musical organizations. The conservatories must do a better job of screening language issues and/or teaching the necessary communication skills.</p>
<p>D is a junior at the conservatory at Lawrence. She attends sporting events, participated in the sophomore honor society activities, goes to frat parties on occasion. She has less time for these activities than others but she wanted the full college experience which is one reason she chose LU. The undergraduate conservatory experience can include more typical college opportunities if schools like LU and Oberlin are in the mix. Best of luck on the musical journey.</p>
<p>My son is a freshman at IU - Jacobs. He likes to have friends, but is shy. He has always been very comfortable among musicians and loves having most of his friends involved (finally!) in the same pursuits he's involved in. It is a huge school and a huge (1600) music school and social groups don't necessarily fall together easily. The 2-day summer orientation program was specific to music students and very well run. There he met a couple of kids then who have become the core of a small social set which he enjoys. He has played chamber music with some and spends Friday nights going out to dinner and watching movies, playing video games, etc. There are few, if any, organized social events for the music students and no clubs although I think there is a fraternity which is of no interest to my son.</p>
<p>It seems like he's having a very good time, but it is more isolated socially than other college experiences would likely be in part because he's in an orchestra which is mostly made up of upperclass students and grad students and his violin studio has no other freshmen in it. Nevertheless, he's there to work on his music and seems to be happy with the way it is all fitting together. He does say that there are a lot of Asian students whom he has little or no contact with (for language reasons), but this doesn't seem to bother him. When he was at Peabody Prep and I spent quite a lot of time waiting around in the cafeteria, I was struck by how many Asian students there would socialize only with each other perhaps because of language issues. I agree with Lorelei that this could pose a real problem for the music world going forward although music is its own language and musicians usually say they can communicate musically even when not linguistically. Perhaps the conservatories could do a better job of encouraging more interaction - this would help all the students socially and would probably help the Asian students to become more fluent in English.</p>
<p>jugglingmom--I agree with you about the relationship dimension at conservatories. I was thinking that NEC almost gives students a tutorial experience, and I would imagine the smaller conservatories are like that. It is an intense way to learn. No hiding in the back of the classroom. </p>
<p>Also, classical students at NEC have the option of choosing to have a mentor. I believe these mentors are board members and benefactors of the Conservatory who develop a relationship with a student, meet them for dinner and attend concerts with them, all of which is tremendous for a young classical musician looking to start networking, but it is a mature kid who can handle that sort of thing! That's quite a different social activity from what you would run across in a regular college setting. My son would die; he is too shy.</p>
<p>Not all of these self-isolating social groups are Asian, stringfollies, some are from other cultural arenas [I knew of a flock (hmm...is that the right term?) of Bulgarian violinists at one school]. It may be that music is the international language, and the actual music making may go just fine, but there is more to college and conservatory life than the temporal experience of music. For singers, these language barriers make character development and communication difficult. Of course people come from different backgrounds and perspectives, but they must be able to understand each other in different contexts.</p>
<p>When my son started Eastman he was one of 6 entering cellists. Four of them were in his studio and the other 2 were in the studios of 2 other teachers. The six of them developed sibling like relationships. They each had their own social groups for the most part but they were all there for each other all through undergrad. They all continue to stay in touch.</p>