<p>I saw this crimson article posted in the Brown forums where someone said this was just another reason to choose Brown over Harvard. Are things really as bad as the writer makes them out to seem? It seems hard to believe that a majority of the students at Harvard could be so depressed. Is this perhaps simply a case of only the people with a bad experience are the ones to voice their opinions, or is this a real trend at the school.</p>
<p>Who’s depressed? Some people I’m sure, but not this guy.</p>
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<p>He’s saying essentially, “while I think Harvard is otherwise awesome, it has some faults that merit consideration.” That’s a fairly reasonable appraisal, and one with which I agree for the most part.</p>
<p>One thing you’ll never finding lacking at Harvard is the number of people who love being outspoken and criticize everything about the school ;). But nevertheless, in this case you’re missing the point of the article. If you read it more carefully:</p>
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<p>The entire article is about one final club member defending final clubs against the other group of people at Harvard who attack their existence as social organizations. According to the author, Harvard social life for freshman males is totally lame (which I don’t necessarily disagree if you’re the freshman guy looking to be the center of some partying scene, sorry) ----that is, until you join frat/sorority/final clubs. </p>
<p>Wait, you’re already satisfied with Harvard social life as it is? Well, you don’t realize how terrible it is, when students can’t even “ask the University to condone or fund underage drinking” or have formally recognized university events that do so. You’ve heard rumors about final clubs being the “enclaves of sexual predation, objectification of females, and homophobia”? Oh, don’t worry, “you should know that not all final clubs are created equal”. Some are quite responsible, less exclusive, and “undeniably safer social spaces”. </p>
<p>In other words, dear profrosh, make sure to join final clubs to escape the horrifying Harvard social life!</p>
<p>When people can say this with such horror, I am tempted to ask if they have ever been to a club or a basement party - the above situations are not confined to Harvard’s final clubs.</p>
<p>^ksarmand, I’m talking about the Crimson article on the lameness of Harvard social life, not criticizing final clubs. Those are quoted from the article itself.</p>
<p>I thought it was refreshing to hear a defense of (some) final clubs. I’m not in one but some of my good friends are and from what I’ve seen it doesn’t really conform to the reputation that the author is attacking. Especially around “Harvard vs Yale season” it’s rare to see someone point out the benefits to joining one.</p>
<p>Even though at the end he summed it up by saying overall he was very happy with Harvard both socially and academically, the picture he painted of life as incoming freshman wasn’t exactly enticing.</p>
<p>@xrCalico - I’m confused. Do you think the Harvard social scene is great for non-members of a social organization (broadly defined to include big student groups like the crimson)? It certainly wasn’t when I was there, and it seems to have gotten worse.</p>
<p>I think it’s strange that the reaction here is that Toby is “defending” the clubs - when his primary argument seems to be that the university needs to make policy changes that would weaken the importance/necessity of the clubs.</p>
<p>To me, it seemed like everyone was a member of a social organization, if you’re including things like the Glee Club and Black Men’s Forum and Christian Fellowship. I agree that this is the key to having a happy social life at Harvard, but everyone can find it through some group or other if they try.</p>
<p>The social scene for non-members of social organizations is perfectly fine to me, so that’s our difference. Does a good social scene have to evolve around a good amount of alcohol, especially in university recognized events? There are more events at Harvard than at most other universities in the country. People who prefer a social scene of a different kind also seem to have no problem finding them on their own, IMHO, whether that is through final clubs or else.</p>
<p>@Hanna - True, but there’s a difference. The Crimson, Advocate, & Lampoon have their own social space. Glee Club, BMF & HRCF all rely on the college for social space (which means annoying reservations and lots of red tape to jump through).</p>
<p>@xrCalico - I’m torn over how to respond. There was certainly tons to do when I was at Harvard - to the point that I always felt agony if I went away for a weekend over how much I missed.</p>
<p>At the same time, outside of the Final Club scene, there’s a significant dearth of the “college experience” - as defined by the popular, media conception of college. With a few exceptions (Brandeis, most notably), when visiting friends at other schools, the “party” scene was far bigger, open, and interesting than it was at Harvard - and it seems that things have only more mild at Harvard since I graduated.</p>
<p>This might not bother you, and I can certainly recognize the argument that Harvard students ought to be intelligent enough to enjoy themselves on a weekend without drinking. I’m not sure I could win this argument on pure philosophical wit alone, but the popular demand for alcohol in social situations (both at Harvard and around the world) certainly says something…</p>
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Lol. I love how my (probable) future school seems to have no dearth of students whose sole interest seems to be in speaking as convoluted english as could be humanely possible. :rolleyes:
I can only hope that they do it for the purpose of hilarity.</p>
<p>“Glee Club, BMF & HRCF all rely on the college for social space (which means annoying reservations and lots of red tape to jump through).”</p>
<p>There’s only red tape and so on if alcohol is involved. If you just want to have a slumber party in a JCR, that’s usually really easy. Call me a dork, but I have super memories of watching “Amadeus” and sleeping on the floor with Collegium. Good times.</p>
<p>I guess I experienced this less than many other H students because my social world was the Veritones, and that group is small enough to have wet parties in someone’s suite. If your group of 80 best friends wants to dance together, that’s a pain in the butt to organize.</p>
<p>^Haha, hey, I wasn’t directing that to you in particular. I’m actually getting tuned to reading posts esp on the admitted students site, and then going “so basically, in one line, he’s saying …”., but I can’t say that I’m very fond of this! :rolleyes:</p>
<p>@perfectpixie: or maybe we should just expect higher standards in written and spoken English. What you might find convoluted, I might think what eloquence or cogency!</p>
<p>Ike and Ultra - perhaps you could weigh in on this opinion I have about Harvard criticism by its students. There’s a common idea that Harvard students may not seem as happy or might not be as gung-ho about their college as students at other colleges. My impression is two-fold. First, Harvard is the only American college with no aspirational peer, so its students (unlike students at any other school in the country) don’t feel that they have to play a role in helping their school “catch up to” its rival. I have a college guide book at home in which current students describe their colleges in exactly five words. The Yale students’ quote is “So much better than Harvard.” The Harvard students’ quote doesn’t reference Yale. Secondly, I think that Harvard students often fear that rampant boosterism would come off as boastful (no one at Dartmouth worries about dropping the “D-bomb”). I get a sense that as an alternative to public promotion of their school, Harvard students often tend to feel they’re most cool when objectively and dispassionately critiquing its flaws - i.e., not only were they accomplished enough to be accepted by Harvard, they’re self-assured enough to not be wowed by it.</p>
Sorry if I was unclear!</p>
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