For her reach schools, my daughter is interested in a number of selective LACs that meet full need. She has solid safeties/matches, btw. They were easy.) She’d love to swim in college, but her times are generally not fast enough to be recruitable at most D3 schools; however, a few excellent schools have recently expressed some interest.
My question: If a student is absolutely qualified in terms of stats (1550 SAT one and done,IB rigor, 4.0 UW, likely val/sal, decent ECs, etc.) would some level of interest/support from a coach help tip the scale in her favor as long as the other pieces of the application were solid? Or do you have to be a top recruit for this to be any kind of hook?
It’s going to vary by school and program, so the coach will always be your best source of info. Yes, there are D3s where coaches can extend soft support. But its usually finite and often the more selective the school, the more limited such soft support will be. It’s not unusual for these coaches to develop relationships with great students who are promising athletes hoping they’ll get in on their own. I’d keep the conversations going and at some point ask about the recruiting process and how that interacts with admissions. If the coaches are staying quiet by late summer about their level of support and where your daughter fits, then I wouldn’t count on an admissions boost. Yes, athletes receiving support often apply ED but that isn’t always the case.
It can help. Depends on the school and depends on the athlete, but a coach can certainly indicate that an applicant would be a great fit for the team and this can tip the scales.
As for ED, most recruits are asked to apply ED in exchange for the support. The coach is trying to build a team so has to know that the students he supports will come. If it’s softer support, the quid pro quo simply isn’t there. The coach can’t offer a guaranteed acceptance so see why would the student lock into the school.
If coaches are expressing interest in your D, there could be a possibility of full support, no?
I assume the LACs you are referring to are primarily DIII schools—the amount of coach influence with admissions will vary by school. The recruiting terminology is different by school, with soft support being the most variable…some schools don’t even really have the concept. Without a positive pre-read, I would not put much weight into a coach saying they will give the applicant soft-support.
With full support, commonly called a ‘slot’, there is no guarantee of admission at a DIII LAC, even with a positive pre-read. Soft support athletes have a lower probability of admission, but it can tip the scales at some schools in some situations, as you asked. At many schools, the full support athletes are expected to apply ED, but the reality is recruiting is often not complete in the ED round(s). There are coaches who will want soft support athletes to apply ED as well.
Make sure you know what type of support the coach is offering and what that level of support means…if soft support you want to make sure they are having a conversation with admissions about your kid. Ask what proportion of athletes with that level of support have historically been accepted. Ask when your D has to apply and if support is at the same level in RD.
Whether full or soft support, if you apply ED, the wait until the admission decision is long and stressful, even if the student had a positive pre-read. Make sure your D only applies ED if she loves the school without the sport, and the school is affordable per the NPC. You can also ask the school for a financial pre-read, many will do that. Schools that meet full need do so based on their calculation of the family’s need, not yours, and not your FAFSA EFC. Good luck.
@Mwfan1921, yes, they are all D3 schools and yes, there may be a possibility they would provide full support, but she’s not yet at the recruiting times they note on collegeswimming.com, although she was told by one school they were officially recruiting her. The school was on my top five list for her before swimming was a consideration, but she has concerns about the location.
@gardenstategal and polieperson, thanks so much for helping us understand a bit more about the process. My daughter is going to reach out this week to several of the coaches, so it’s very helpful to get a bit more insight into how D3 recruiting works and the questions to ask. Also, wonderful to know that financial pre-read may be an option.
@TrendaLeigh I wouldn’t worry too much about published recruiting standards. At some schools those are wish lists and at many schools the current coaching staff doesn’t update them. They are very rough guidelines at best. My sport is track not swimming, so take this for what it’s worth: one of the best ways to estimate true recruiting standards is to look at prior recruits. It can take some digging but you should be able to figure out the range of times from each recruiting class. Some/most of those might have been walk ons but the top several should give you an idea of the sort of athlete the coach can reasonably expect each year. In most cases the coaches will aim for better athletes, but as the process gets under way some of those top prospects will opt for other programs. At selective D3s, this can mean recruits realizing D1 is an option. So for recruits that are a bit lower on the list, clarity about coach support might come late in the process.
The admissions and financial aid pre reads are a crucial part of the process, so don’t be afraid to ask how the admissions and FA process works for recruits. Usually coaches will explain this but sometimes not in the first conversation. It can be brought up later when the coach asks if there are any questions.
@politeperson Interesting. So, are you referring to the “ recruiting requirements” that some colleges have on collegeswimmi g.com? Take those with a grain of salt? Because that’s where we have been looking to see what range of times are for different teams.
@tiempocompleto - There are two different set of times on collegeswimming
Some schools list the times necessary to be recruited. These are under recruiting or the schools home page. I can't remember where. Often these times are old or not accurate.
Look at the individual swimmers who swim your D's strokes at the school and check out their times by the summer before their senior year. Make a quick spreadsheet for each school.
I am not sure that the OP is actually talking about “soft support.” I think the question really is about being lower on the list of recruited athletes. There is a reason that we always say “ask the coach,” because the coach is going to know what is needed for the team, by way of example, for each stroke or position. The coach will know what GPA and scores will be needed. The coach will know how many recruits he or she can support for a given year. And the coach knows with whom he or she has been communicating about recruiting, and the likelihood that they are committing.
In the NESCAC, there are tips and slots. Note that tips and slots are called by a lot of different names. You will see the word “bands” referred to on the NESCAC website. You may also see the term “athletic supports” being used. The bottom line is that a coach can support a few (usually one or two - except that there are more in helmet sports) recruits whose admission statistics fall below the usual admission standards. Call these slots, and even with the lower “band” of academic stats, they likely will be admitted. A coach may use the slot for the most talented impact player, but not always. If the most talented recruit also has the highest grades and scores, the coach will not use the slot to support that player. Tips are used to support recruits whose grades and scores are well within range, but with some of the elite D3 schools there are no shoo-ins. The coach supports with a tip so that the recruit doesn’t get overlooked by admissions. Tips are no softer that slots, except at the margins (e.g., recruit no. 10 of 10) or in given cases. Most NESCAC coaches have less (if any) pull once the ED rounds progress to regular decision. Not all leagues have tips and slots.
Soft support, as I understand it, is for an athlete who isn’t on the coach’s recruit list. The coach writes a letter to admissions “we could use this kid on the team if you can see it in your heart to admit him/her.” At any given school, this may or may not be helpful. You just need to ask the coach.
@TrendaLeigh contact the coaches but be delicate in crafting the email (should be from your kid not you). Will depend on sport and school, but you are correct if there’s somewhere that would be happy to have your kid on the team even, if not top recruit, the coach can give support that tips the balance in your favor. And yes they would likely expect ED for that support for a marginal athlete.
we are on a very similar boat, DS has good stats and I sometimes wonder whether that could be a double-edged sword: ie coach might want to use their limited number of supports on faster swimmers/weaker students? @TrendaLeigh
Look at your DD’s (best) times and compare them with the NESCAC (if that was the conference the schools your DD are interested in) conference time (for finals A and B). So if your DD’s time falls within the top two finals, generally it is a good sign (as she is already a potential conference scorer). The recruiting times are often wish(ful-thinking) list, good goal to aim at.
Hardly anyone gets into top schools, with top stats without a hook. Kids don’t usually get in and walk on. Many schools don’t even allow it. Coach can offer support and get pre-read feed back. The coach can then tell you exactly the number of total kids supported with positive pre-reads that did not get in( for all the years they coached). For the top 20 schools ( two Ivys and 3 LACs) that my Ds were serious about that number was 0. D3 recruiting can be a very nearly definite thing. As for times( for those coveted supported slots), they were definitive and had to be obtained and proven(done more than once) .
If you do not need FA or merit, and a coach is offering support at a school your D would love to attend I see no problem applying ED1 to that school. She gets in or she doesn’t. OTOH, recruiting at the D3 level (at least with womens basketball) is a game of musical chairs. My D had 6 coaches recruiting her, got prereads, but with her #1 wavering on support til Oct. D did the OV’s at all the schools and was in love with “that” school. While other coaches were looking for commitment, D put them off. When #1 school finally gave it to her, she submitted the ED1 app. A couple other coaches told her if you do not get in reach out to us and maybe you can apply ED2 if we still have spots. Go with it. I have read that those admitted ED are mostly recruited athletes, legacy and others with connections. ED only seems to give you a bump if you have pull. Do an OV and let your D make her decision after the visit. My D ruled out schools that were not a good fit from that visit. Good luck
Our S19 will be running at Bowdoin this year. When he approached the coach via email in the summer of senior year, he was told that they would “love to see him on the team and recognize his stellar stats” and “if he gets in, he would be a be welcome on the team”. At the time of the email, S19’s running times weren’t quite D3 recruitable but he was getting pretty close (4:40 mile). He was being actively recruited at some less selective LACs like Kenyon and Dickinson
He had told all coaches in his initial emails that he wasn’t applying anywhere ED. I do believe that the Bowdoin coaches, at the very least, put a little bit of a word in for him in admissions. S19 was a strong candidate without running with stats above Bowdoin’s 75th percentile in scores and other ECs that made him well rounded. But with a RD acceptance rate lower than 8%, I have to think the coaches maybe gave him a little tip.
Many D3s have a large percentage of athletes even if those kids do not end up playing for a team. If there’s a sporty culture on campus, I think it helps to have sports on the application.
Thank you so much! I’m sharing this thread with my daughter tonight (who fortunately doesn’t visit CC), as she needs to reach out to several schools that have expressed interest. She and I are both a bit clueless, so this info is very helpful. She needs to chat with her club coach as well.
From the advice here, it sounds like she should focus first on getting to know the coach and vice versa - she can then take her cue from those conversations. @mamom, we do need financial aid, but all the schools we’re considering meet full need and are (more or less) feasible for our family based on the expected EFC.
@gointhruaphase, thanks for explaining the difference between tips, slots, and soft support. I didn’t even know what a pre-read was until a month ago, so we’re getting there. We are trying to make this whole college search process an adventure and a learning experience.
^^^Does FP and being a recruited athlete give a bigger bump to be accepted
rather than a FA/Merit/recruited athlete? Or is the big hook recruited athlete?
Thanks.
@RW1@anon145 that what I am truly concerned about. Grades
and SAT/ACT are not enough for <10% acceptance schools. Thanks.
^ the hook is athletic skill. The coach can get x# of academically qualified athletes through admissions. She cares that they will come to the school and help the team, not whether the parents or the school’s endowment is paying.
Yes, it can make a difference at some schools. It depends upon the school, the sport, and the coach. In my experience, it was virtually impossible to know how much clout the coach had in the admissions decisions. None of them would give enough information. At the end of the process, it was clear that at some schools, some coaches had enormous influence.
Like enough influence to get a kid accepted who did not apply. Yes. Top 25 school too. It happened. Not just to us but to others. And the coaches disavowed up and down that they had any influence. Until crunch time.
Yes, there is a push to apply ED. My kid didn’t. A lot his teammates and peers did not. It did not seem to be an issue. Of course, the coach and the school prefer to have the student locked in.
My kid had a 3.3 Gpa, 1350 test scores and only hook, his sport. Got into several top 25 schools. Where the coach showed no interest, or left, he was denied. It was a clear relationship.
