<p>ucbalumnus–did you adjust your costs for the change in funding that the state is giving your state universities as well? I know in our state the % of costs the state kicks in has also decreased over the past 25 years putting more of the costs on the students themselves. Also, California isn’t a very good example as they used to fully fund the first 2 years of school for CA students and now, being that CA is bankrupt, can’t subsidize out of state students as much as they have in the past.</p>
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<p>I think that the idea is that professors bring in more money through research than they cost the school and which may subsidize their teaching. I understand that it can be hard to do a good job at teaching when your primary job is doing something else. It’s interesting that a lot of state universities have a big research focus - perhaps the research offsets declining state contributions.</p>
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<p>I think that a lot of students go to public research universities because of the sticker price not realizing what the primary focus of professors is. You can get the focus on teachers at LACs but they often have much higher sticker prices.</p>
<p>Of course there are the kids that really want to do research where they actually want the focus on research so that they will have opportunities to participate in it.</p>
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<p>That is no doubt true. But often, the net price of LACs is less than that of state universities - at least that’s true in Illinois. My D got accepted to four schools, three of them private - all less expensive than any of our in-state publics would have been.</p>
<p>I know, I know. The argument is that the big researcher professors more than pay their own way and bring huge amounts of money to the universities. But does that money offset tuition and pay the price of teaching faculty? I don’t think so. I think that money goes into “indirect costs” like construction and labs and research staff and administrators (ever taken a peak at the amount of administrative staff big research schools devote to simply managing the research grant proposals and budgets of the grants?) </p>
<p>I just don’t think it translates into lowering tuition. Not the only problem, of course.</p>
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<p>That’s the downside of a high sticker price. There might be a great used car at the Mercedes dealership but many wouldn’t go there to look at used cars assuming that they’re all fairly expensive there.</p>
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<p>No, those are the fees paid by the student (before financial aid and scholarships). It is obvious that funding from the state has been cut over the years. Voter priorities are K-12, health and welfare, prisons, and limiting taxes. Everything else, including post-secondary education, has to bear most of the burden of budgeting.</p>
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<p>Is this really true for most? Seems that it is mainly the flagship-level state universities have high research activity. Other state universities may not have as much research activity.</p>
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<p>Of course, a more advanced student who will skip some or all of the big lower division lectures in his/her major, take upper division courses early, take graduate courses as an undergraduate, and engage in undergraduate research may find an RU model school to be more suitable than a LAC model school.</p>
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<p>This is my experience though from a very small sample. But part of the reason for being a university is to grant Phds and you need research work to do that.</p>
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<p>That’s what my son did and I’m really glad that he did it at a research university. I’m
pretty sure that he was hired, partly for his research experience as there is a significant
research component to his job. The feeling that I get is that most students aren’t
interested in research and that most get through college not really understanding what
it is.</p>
<p>I doubt that the research budgets of the non-flagships compare with those of their bigger brothers (sisters?), but at least at some of them, neither are they negligible.</p>
<p>[NIU</a> research attracts four new major NSF awards](<a href=“http://www.niu.edu/PubAffairs/RELEASES/2009/aug/nsfgrants.shtml]NIU”>http://www.niu.edu/PubAffairs/RELEASES/2009/aug/nsfgrants.shtml)</p>
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<p>I don’t really know, but I’m going to guess such students are a very small part of the undergraduate population at a public university.</p>
<p>Private college costs are totally out of sync with reality. I went to a good private college from 1978-82. Starting T/R&B were just under 5K. The year I graduated it just topped 10K. While that was an outrageous percentage increase over 4 years, it still doesn’t remotely compare to the gouging cost of private schools today. My dad made 50 or 60K back then, which was good pay. We’d need to make 600K/year to have that same college cost/family income ratio. We don’t make 600K. It seems to me private, very selective colleges (and MANY are in the early 60s today) are now fillled with either students from very wealthy families or very poor families who qualify for a ton of aid. Either way, middle income/middle class students get nadda. Clearly the bubble will have to burst soon. How many families can afford, 80, 90, 100K per year? (and that’s for one child.) And, they need SOME students to pay full freight to help pay for the students who get the free ride.</p>
<p>Our son was recently accepted to a great state school in addition to being accepted to a an excellent private college. We just didn’t think the private college was 2 1/2 times better than the in-state school (considered one of the “public” Ivys.) We also wouldn’t let him take out loans. He may not understand it now, but 120K to 160K are truly life-crippling loans. I’ve seen some parents allow their 17 year olds to take on that kind of debt and I think they’re very short sighted. (And remember, many will need to go on to grad school!)</p>
<p>Momzie</p>
<p>Recently read that College Board guide to filling out the FAFSA and practically choked on the stories about how to keep your ASSETS high and your INCOME low, so that you too can live in a 2 million dollar apartment in NYC and send your kids to private school and still get financial aid. (I picture myself working two jobs while some rich lady gets her nails done – so that I can subsidize her kids’ college tuition. Ain’t America grand?)
is offline </p>
<p>04-30-2012, 08:55 AM #42
mommusic
Senior Member</p>
<p>^I thought the CSS Profile took care of situations where people had above-average assets but wanted finaid?</p>
<p>Hi. Apologies in advance as I can’t seem to get CC’s quote function to work but I’d like to share a couple of reflections here. </p>
<p>First, re: above - in my town there are lots of rumors (!) circulating about well heeled folks using services (we all know them) to hide assets and income; doing stuff like purchasing a beach or taking a second mortgage on house and spending the money for extension/construction. I agree that CSS should make that impossible but players say it is all a game to lower your EFC (and those players want to be paid handsomely to fix your books). Hopefully folks that turn up hobnobbing at Ivy events having scammed their funding will one day be held to task by someone who can put two and two together (or perhaps they’ll just be toasted). And, btw, I’d love to read threads about just how folks pull the mathematical wool over such esteemed institutions eyes.</p>
<p>However, I did seek such insider advice and here is one ‘hard lesson’ I learned; ‘professional’ insisted that important criteria is to get in to ‘school of choice’; once in/accepted, institution will do what it can (‘the package’) to entice student; and don’t check off box needing aid. </p>
<p>That was not my experience. I found in each of the institutions I approached glad handing admission ‘deans’ or assistants happy to talk shop about bells and whistles of their school. But schools had a firewall when it came to any discussion of aid or cost; none of the ‘happy people’ talked money, and I’ll not name schools but I found each department of “financial aid” (really the ‘good luck, you are own your own’ folks) woefully staffed by people who do not want to talk to you. They just want your money.</p>
<p>Finally, some of the threads here about how college is ‘just not that expensive’ defy belief. The insanity of a quarter of a million dollars for an undergrad education should speak for itself however giving our country’s next bestseller will undoubtedly be Edward Conards book Unintended Consequences: Why Everything Youve Been Told About the Economy Is Wrong - digging through the lies, damn lies and statistics has never seemed more daunting.</p>
<p>Last thoughts: </p>
<p>“After all, tuition and fees have increased 184% in 20 years after accounting for inflation, but wages for college grads have risen just 9%, according to Labor Department data.” </p>
<p>[College:</a> ‘Best Investment’ or Big Risk? - SmartMoney.com](<a href=“Stock investment news - MarketWatch”>http://www.smartmoney.com/invest/stocks/college-best-investment-or-big-risk-1336169253802/)</p>
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<p>Insanity, yes, for those who cannot easily afford it - however, also unnecessary, because there are many, many other options.</p>
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<p>Actually, research professors self-fund their salaries by obtaining the very grants you acknowledged they’re responsible for procuring.
Yale, for example, received ~650 million in grants and contract income for fiscal year 2009-2010. In other words, research professors are significant revenue-enhancers. And when you consider the advancements in medicine, technology, et cetera, that can be directly attributed to university research, it’s a win-win.</p>
<p>My dad has done research at UT-Austin since 1965. He has also won numerous teaching awards. He’s over 70 and still going strong. I think if you asked almost any of his students, they would agree that research and excellent teaching don’t have to be mutually exclusive.</p>
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<p>Good point! My sister-in-law is a researcher/professor of significant renown at a top Ivy. She not only teaches courses in the med school, but undergrad as well.</p>