Some myths about Oxbridge and the British system in general

<p>I've been observing this site for a while and have noticed that many people are interested in applying to these two English universities (or at least intested in discussing/talking about them). </p>

<p>Since I have studied at both univesities, I can say something about them here since some of you guys may not have vivid ideas about them. </p>

<p>1 Their financial situations
It is true that Oxbridge can't compare with IVY League in terms of endowments. One major reason is because they are government universities and according to English laws, they can't charge their students a very high tuition fee. Even as international students, you still pay far less at Oxbridge than at IVY Leagues. What's more, they don't require admissions fees, nor do they require a tuition fee after your third year as a PhD student. Since they earn less, they are less wealthy, which is a very simple fact. Some academics say Oxbridge should privatise themselves in order to compete with Top US schools in terms of financial situations. However, many people don't like this idea since fewer people would be able to attend Oxbridge. </p>

<p>2 Facilities
They are actually not as bad as many would think (based on their beliefs about their financial problems). Oxford has just built a new chemistry laboratory building, which is believed to be the best of its kind in the world (with the most modern equipment, of course). It is also investing a lot of money in facilities for its medical school. In general, facilities in Oxford are pretty good (although they may not be as good as what IVY leagues have in certain subjects). In humanities subjects (like English literature philosophy, classics), Oxford have "among the best if not best" resources and facilities in the world. Cambridge has an "amazing" Maths/Statistics complex (consisting of 11 buildings with more than 300 offices). The university is also expanding its science and engineering departments. I'd say Oxbridge may lag behind Top US schools a bit but they can still compete with American big names in certain fields. </p>

<p>Many students (especially science students) get research grants/conference travel grants quite easily. Students can apply for those grants and allowances both through their departments/schools and their own colleges.
Many students receive these things from at least two sources. The university itself also provides several of these small grants.<br>
Some oxbridge colleges are very generous towards their students. I was at one of the smallest and poorest colleges in Cambridge, yet I learnt that all PhD students could receive book/research allowances worth 250 pounds yearly throughout their 3 years. I even got free 25 meals in a year in my college dining hall (as did all of my college-mates). Of course, these things vary from college to college. Some many not be as generous, while others may be very generous. </p>

<p>3 tutorials
This is a distinctive feature of Oxbridge education. In fact, the tutorial system also exists in many master's programmes at Oxford. Graduate students benefit even more since graduate tutorials tend to be one-to-one rather than small groups, as in the case for undergrads . And they have a chance to discuss their work weekly with some of the "highly-respected" people in their fields. They are taught individually by professors and lecturers in their department/schools - not by college fellows as in the case for undergrads. Graduate tutorials generally exist in humanities and social-sciences subjects. </p>

<p>4 Research/teaching
In terms of research, I'd say Oxbridge perform as well as American big names.
For example, a recent news report says Oxford is undertaking the biggest and most comprehensive genetic study in the world. Much innovative research like needle-less injection for vaccine, and real-time video-editing cameras are being undertaken at Oxford with very promising and successful results. Oxford is also the world pioneer in producing digital texts for several ancient and extremely rare manuscripts, and not to mention the most widely-consulted English-language corpus.
For teaching, this may be seen as an inferior part from an American point of view. British universities generally do not require students to take a huge number of courses in their degrees. For example, you may take only 6 courses in an English literature programme at the master's level with only, say, 2 hours/week in each course. Generally, you take very few or none for your PhD (except for those American-style PhD programmes that have recently been incorporated in the UK system). This is because people here believe that students should do all their learning on their own and be very self-independent and self-motivated. So you may not get as much work from your courses/professors as in the States. This is also true for a doctoral degree. It seems easy as there aren't many requirements, but it's tough when one begins his/her PhD thesis, since they have to build up their background knowledge on their own (mostly).</p>

<p>5 Financial support
This is one area Oxbridge can't compete with top US schools. However, they do far better in providing financial support for international students, I think.
A number of scholarships offered by Oxbridge are specially reserved for applicants from certain countries, which ensures that the universities are well-represented in terms of students' backgrounds. Cambridge, for example, have special scholarships for certain African and Asian nationals. While US schools offer non-discriminatory finanical-aid, and because of this it's Americans who secure the financial aid (in most cases). Take Harvard's Education school, for example, only 10% of its student body are from abroad. Presumably, most international students can't get into Harvard because of its high tuition fees and very little financial aid allocated specifically for international students - my counsin was a visiting student at Harvard and he was told by a Harvard professor that as an international student it is extremely difficult to receive funding for your studies (at least at the beginning), unless you are super-intelligent student.<br>
Oxbridge do have plenty graduate scholarships for international students. Oxbridge also have non-discriminatory scholarships (called studentship)
(both UK/EU and overseas students are eligible to apply). These studentships are funded by UK research councils and in many cases overseas students can apply. But you have to pay the difference in amount between home and overseas tution fees. Cambridge seems to have many more scholarships than Oxford. But the sad thing is you can't reply on TA/RA assistantships. There aren't many at Oxbridge.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the info, THY. Some good points there. For us, and for many other U.S. families, the crux of the matter would be the overseas Cost of Living, despite the fact that -- yes-- tuition is reasonable. And since, as you mention, financial aid packages are not as generous (though better for internat'ls than ours are), it means that generally Oxbridge is an option mostly for the wealthier segment of accomplished U.S. students, at least on the undergrad level. It's one reason that US students often prefer graduate study overseas to undergraduate -- or certain Study Abroad programs supported by their U.S. undergrad schools.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the very informative post. However, I would point out that US universities do not develop big endowments by charging high tuition fees so much as they do it by shrewd management of investment and IP portfolios. The University of Texas has the third highest endowment of any university in the US, but yet it is a state government school that like Oxbridge charges only modest tuition. Conversely, there are plenty of US colleges that charge high tution yet fail to develop wealthy endowments. For the mega-rich schools such as Harvard, the tuition fees they collect make up only a small portion of their income.</p>

<p>Thank you for the info, THY.</p>

<p>Here's something you could clarify...</p>

<p>Is it true that you never take a single course outside of your major at Oxford and Cambridge? I'd love to apply as an English major, but I think I would miss taking history, science and foreign language classes. </p>

<p>So can you take other courses?</p>

<p>you can go to any lecture you want, but probably itll be hard to take the exam.</p>

<p>CLeighDrie-</p>

<p>You've put your finger on what is probably the biggest difference between Oxbridge and US schools--you have very little curricular flexibility at Oxbridge. As a chemistry major, you will probably never have the opportunity to take any English tutorials (or history or philosophy or anything that is not part of the Chemistry course of study). However, you are able to sit in on any set of lectures that you're interested in.</p>

<p>To clarify, study in at least Oxford (I'm less familiar with Cambridge) can be divided into primarily tutorials and lectures. Tutorials are either 1-1, 1-2, or small group meetings with your tutor (professor). In tutorials, you tend to meet around once a week, and are expected to do a significant amount of reading and submit an essay for each meeting, which consists of a discussion of the subject with your tutor. In addition to tutorials (which are offered through the individual colleges of Oxford), the University sponsors numerous lecture series that tend to correspond with various courses of study. So... as an English major at most Oxford Colleges, you're expected to take a set of tutorials that includes study of modern brittish authors, and there corresponds several sets of lectures regarding modern brittish lit (for example: "the modernism circus" is one currently being offered). Any person of any major can sit in on the lectures, although they are typically geared towards students taking tutorials in similar subjects. However, you may only take tutorials allowed by your particular course of study.</p>

<p>I hope this helps.</p>

<p>Texas doesn't get as much endowment as Harvard, Princeton, Yale, or Stanford. USNEWS 06</p>

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<p>Other sources disagree. University of Texas is third and has been for a long time:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nacubo.org/documents/research/FY04NESInstitutionsbyTotalAssetsforPress.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nacubo.org/documents/research/FY04NESInstitutionsbyTotalAssetsforPress.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Could it be that one of you is referring to one campus of the UT system while the other is referring to the whole UT system?</p>

<p>And undergrad is 3 years, as opposed to the American 4 years?</p>

<p>That's true for nearly all degrees, although there are a few (Classics, for example) that take four years.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Is it true that you never take a single course outside of your major at Oxford and Cambridge? I'd love to apply as an English major, but I think I would miss taking history, science and foreign language classes.

[/QUOTE]
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<p>This is basically true for all UK unis. In some places (mainly Scottish but my sister also did this at Lancaster in England) you can take more subjects in the first year but mostly you can't (and even where you can do this the choice is nowhere near as large and flexible aa st US colleges IMO). I mean you can attend any lectures you like (I went to Russian for 2 years) but they don't count towards any grades. Nothing counts outside your subject ('major'). It's unlikely you would have time to attend many extra lectures anyway due to the amount fo work students are expected to get through in eight week terms!</p>

<p>I would like to note that there are lots of scholarships for overseas GRADUATE students but far fewer for undergraduates.</p>

<p>I've been to both too. Undergrad at New Hall, Cambridge. Grad at Linacre, Oxford.</p>

<p>Man, that just stinks! Why do they want people to be so specialized? What if you like everything?</p>

<p>An illustrative tale:
I was wandering around the Smithsonian Mall two summers ago and fell to talking to a French guy who was visiting DC. He said that he really wanted to be a doctor, but when you're 17, you declare your major and that's that. Someone told him he wasn't smart enough to handle pre-med, so he impulsively switched to engineering. Three years into it, he discovered that he really hated engineering and still loved medicine... but to change his major, he'd have to repeat all three years of school.</p>

<p>So now he's an engineer, and hates it. He almost grew angry when I told him about my cousin, who changed her major five times (nutrition, business, biology and flip-flopping between the three), and graduated just one semester late.</p>

<p>Thanks for the answers, haon and cupcake. I appreciate it.</p>

<p>The (high school) schooling system is totally different. It's much more focused. Most people doing British A-levels only do 3-4 subjects and generally these will all be related. eg I did Biology, Chemistry, Maths and Physics (and General studies, the easy subject which everyone does but no uni really accepts!). So i couldn't choose to study an arts subject because I'd already been doing purely science for 2 years. </p>

<p>Medicine is a 5-6 year undergraduare degree in the UK. there is no such thing as 'pre-med'. There is a graduate medicine course as well, which is 4 years long. It seems to be populated with mature students and former Biology students who changed their minds. Apparently this is a very stressful and intensive course </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Man, that just stinks! Why do they want people to be so specialized? What if you like everything?

[/QUOTE]

It's just a different way of looking at things. This would look like a very bad thing to a UK employer. They like focused and decided individuals. If you apply to the UK make sure you write all about how much you love the subject you wish to study (not the place!)</p>

<p>It is misleading on the whole to talk about majors or minors in the UK university system. But you can still do more than one subject if you choose to take what is often called Joint Honours. </p>

<p>Taking CLeighDrie and her prime interest in English as an example, at Oxford she could take the following subjects: English Language & Literature; Classics & English; English & Modern Languages; Modern History & English. The English syllabus itself is quite broad: there is an option in the 2nd & 3rd years called Course II which emphasises Old and Middle English but also gets you into archaeology, mediaeval Welsh or Old Norse!</p>

<p>A Joint Honours course is still something you would put down when applying to a university. However, it will usually be easier to switch into a related joint course from Single Honours than it would be to change to a completely different subject, e.g. a friend of mine switched from Modern History to Ancient & Modern.</p>

<p>I have a question about "Oxbridge" (cool combination :D)...are degrees from those colleges held in the same esteem as Ivy League colleges are in the US? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a prestige-whore, but I don't want to get a degree from Oxbridge and then discover that US companies favor graduates from US colleges. BTW if it matters I'm a possible chem eng. major.</p>

<p>Oxford and Cambridge are two of the most prestigeous unversities in the world. E.G. - does the phrase "Rhodes Scholar" ring a bell? A degree from either of those two schools will be respected the world over, including the US.</p>

<p>Yeah, that is what I figured...I just wasn't sure if there was some accredation issue or something, especially pertaining to the percieved "low standards" that are caused by few required classes (mentioned above)</p>

<p>The fact that your major is so set in stone is turning me off right now, but I may decide to check them out and maybe apply to give myself the option.</p>

<p>Hmm, why should an emphasis on independent working rather than a lot of required classes lead to "low standards"? And who is it who is perceiving that?</p>