Some Questions from a Very Confused Freshman

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>Hey guys. So, long story short, I'm a physics major at a pretty nice university, originally on the pre-med track, and am having a sort of mid life crisis...</p>

<p>I always have thought that medicine was for me, but my mom and her friends, all PAs and MDs, have continued to push me as far away from it as possible over the years. I kept pushing back, aware of how sucky the medical field is nowadays, but I've finally sort of given up. </p>

<p>I was talking to my physics advisor the other day, and he mentioned that I should look at the Combined 3:2 plan with Columbia's Fu School, where I'd get my BA in Physics from my home institution, and a BS in some sort of engineering from Columbia. If I take all of the pre-engineering courses for the type that I'm interested in and maintain above a 3.3, I'm guaranteed acceptance, which is awesome.</p>

<p>My mom and family friends jumped on that when I found out, saying that they could all easily see me in engineering, and would be so proud of me (since "any idiot can get an MD.") In a stupid narcissistic way, I really liked the idea of being Dr. __, but they assured me that an engineering Ph.D is waaayyy more impressive. </p>

<p>So...after staying up till 5AM researching engineering careers, I have some questions:</p>

<p>*1) **I'm by far most interested in ChemE--the pay is great, and lots of work opportunities, too. BUT...I'm really more interested in the biomedical side of this stuff, ie genetic engineering, stem cell research, cancer screening and treatment development, etc. It *seems to me, though, that ChemEs basically have only one job, and that's to make things big-scale. Is that really all they do? Anything else interesting?</p>

<p>2) What are the opportunities like for advancement in engineering (specifically Chem)? I'm an ambitious guy, and wouldn't be satisfied with staying in the same position with the same salary all my life, but I don't want to just manage either. Again, it seems like you get an entry-level job no sweat, but then you hit a sort of glass ceiling, even with a MS...</p>

<p>3) What about a PhD? It seems like those guys are royally screwed because they need higher pay and seem only interested in academia, even though they've worked so hard. Would a PhD be a reasonable career goal, if I'm not 100% on working at a Uni?</p>

<p>4) How much schooling? Is it better, generally, to go from BS to MS before starting work? Or will an employer pay for your continued studies?</p>

<p>edit for a quick last question, if anyone knows about it:
What about financial engineering, and engineers who end up in finance or consulting...how does that come to be? Just years of experience and stuff, or do you need a less science-y degree?</p>

2

<p>

No, it’s definitely not the only thing they do. But it really seems like you’re just saying, “I don’t really like it but the pay is good.” Not a good enough reason to go into it.</p>

<p>

Glass ceilings exist, but there’s always lucrative positions for those that do something to deserve it. </p>

<p>

Not as royally screwed as the science PhD’s, but still similar situation. Don’t do it for the money, basically.</p>

<p>

Depends. The path to both is pretty much the same for the first 2.5 years (do research and internships). By then, hopefully you’d figure it out.</p>

<p>

You get picked up by a financial company to do financial analysis. If you’re not at one of their target schools (Ivy, Berkeley, MIT, Stanford) on track to graduate summa cum laude, forget it.</p>

<p>Personally, I’d switch majors to an engineering major and then take an MS in a top school. That would take just the same amount of time but you get an MS on top of it.</p>

3

<p>I am also not a fan of the 3-2 program…and my reasons are:</p>

<p>1) Having 2 bachelors degrees will not give you any more money for the position you are hired for. It may open you up to MORE jobs, but not more money.</p>

<p>2) Takes 5 years. As NeoDymium pointed out, you can get a M.S./M.Eng with just one year extra (full-time). Hell, you can get a masters degree in 2 years going part time. It’s only 30 more credits.</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the feedback, guys!</p>

<p>@NeoDymium:
I guess that my primary motivation for ChemE is the money, but at the same time, I am pretty interested in the more biomedical aspects of it. The problem, I think, is that I just don’t get what they actually DO, despite 10+ hours of research. Could you elaborate a little bit on the options that I’d have with ChemE? None of the other concentrations seem to really interest me, but again, I don’t really understand what they are all about…</p>

<p>Also, in terms of internships and things like that, is the market for ChemEs still good enough that being hired directly out of undergrad with an internship is still pretty easy?</p>

<p>Not to keep rambling or anything, but the biggest problem that I’m having in all of this is that I just can’t picture what I’d be doing every day as an engineer. I’m definitely a people person, despite my geeky major, and feel like sitting in front of a microscope, alone, all day would get kind of boring–especially so if I feel like I’m not doing anything important. That’s why I was interested in the biomedical/chemical side of things, but I’m not sure if that’s a viable option anymore, as I heard that BME grads are pretty pigeon-holed, and have trouble finding work.</p>

<p>@GLOBALTRAVELLER:
Unfortunately, my undergrad institution doesn’t have an engineering major, hence the whole 3:2 thing. Since Masters admissions aren’t guaranteed, it’s more of a risk and a headache, but still do-able, I guess.</p>

5

<p>Traditionally, ChemE’s use chemistry to make useful products on a large scale. This ranges from ivory soap and rocket fuel to paper, plastics and pharmaceuticals. A lot of the R&D behind actually making the stuff (on a small scale) is done by chemists, but ChemEs know at least as much chemistry as chemists do as part of their curriculum. ChemEs also do work in a lot of less traditional fields nowadays, such as biotech, microelectronics, and consulting. Jobs are there, but in the current economy, it’s hard to classify it as “easy” to find a job.
BME is useless without a Masters degree anyways. But which side of Biomed do you really want to work with? ChemE is good for the chemical side, but Materials Science, Mechanical, and Electrical do a lot of BioMed work too.
Working in a lab is the job of PhD’s, not the general engineer.</p>

6

<p>So, is it fair to say that ChemEs work to implement the small-scale designs of chemists on a much larger scale, specifically in the realm of consumer products and such? Where do opportunities exist for the more biomedical side of ChemE, like genetic engineering, tissue development, cancer research, pharmaceutical development, etc? Or is the development of those types of things really geared toward MD/PhDs who can perform clinical trials, and science PhDs? Basically what I mean is: do ChemEs generally not work in the research and development side of medical innovations?</p>

<p>If they don’t, then how do people get involved in that type of work? MS in BME?</p>

<p>One last question: in terms of opportunity for advancement, I realize that outstanding individuals will generally be rewarded, but what positions can ChemEs actually advance to? Like, if I joined a big pharm company or consulting firm directly out of masters, what could I expect for eventual advancement? I’ve seen ChemEs who end up as CEOs and VPs, but I don’t really know the path that they’d take to get there.</p>

<p>I’m sorry for all of the questions, but I really appreciate your help! I don’t personally know anyone in the field to talk to, so you’re helping me out a huge deal</p>

7

<ol>
<li>Medical R&D usually takes level of PhD to work on. You might be able to work on a project with people who do research in those subjects, but don’t expect company to offer you a job in an R&D lab with a bachelor degree. BME, ChemE, EE all have plenty of research projects about medical in grad level</li>
<li>You will need a lot of things put together to get to those positions, be at the right place, know the right person, performance, etc.</li>
</ol>

8

<p>For the most part, ChemEs are involved in upscaling products made by chemists. But as I said, a ChemE knows as least as much chemistry as a chemist, so you could definitely get a job as a chemist if that’s your cup of tea.
There is R&D on the ChemE side, but it usually doesn’t involve making new products. It involves making larger quantities of those products, taking into account macro-physics(chemists don’t worry about this because their work is small-scale), cost, recycling, and the like. There’s a lot of research that goes into that line of work.
Non-standard lines of work, you’ll have to look up yourself. There’s a lot of ChemE’s in other fields with a non-ChemE title for their work. Look into that eventually.
There’s really no work these days in the Biomedical field without a graduate degree. ChemE masters could definitely find a job there, but most go into BME for Masters from ChemE/MechE/EE/MatSciE. There’s a mechanical, biochemical, and electronic side to medical work, so you could find your way to BME from all of these. But a BME BS degree is worthless because there are very few BS-level jobs in BioMed.</p>

<p>Generally, you advance by being better than normal. If you just do your job, you’ll pretty much stay put. Management and just general engineer work advancement follow a similar pattern. Eventually you’ll be asked (and probably partially paid) to get an MBA if you’re at the point where you have all but the technical knowledge to get an important management job. MBAs are worthless if you’re not at the point where you need one though.</p>

9

<p>You don’t necessarily need a PhD in engineering to be a chemical engineer. I am a ChemE on a premed track. Many ChemE’s apply to medical school. Also, chemical engineers can go into biomedical engineering and petroleum, among others things. And petroleum, I hear, is pretty well paying. </p>

<p>Also, at my school, the ChemE program is pretty rigorous but you major in chemical engineering and can specialize in biomedical, physical, etc. engineering. And it all takes four years to complete (BSE). After you receive this degree, you can either go onto graduate school or enter the industry. Other options include consulting, med school, and law school (though few enter law school). Anyway, you’re better off financially with a ChemE degree than a natural science degree, holding years of education constant. </p>

<p>As for advancement, as somebody above said, you can always go back for your MBA and get a job managing other engineers. But engineering is kind of a terminal field - you can’t go up or down, really. </p>

<p>Finally, I would like to know why your mom and friends are pushing you away from the medical field? I understand that doctors are underpaid and overworked, but it is still a very rewarding field for those who have a passion for it. It seems strange that they wouldn’t support you for something you really want to do.</p>

10

<p>Queens college is not a pretty nice university, also are you sure it’s a guaranteed transfer? Because I have looked at the program before and the page seemed pretty vague.</p>

11

<p>Why are ignoring the first part… You want to switch from something you obviously were passionate about and had a plan for, med school. Because your mom and friends told you not to? Value advice but its your life you will have to lead.</p>

<p>I am an engineer and while I agree a tough engineering Ph.D. is impressive. So is the countless hours of med school + residency. </p>

<p>Sorry that just stuck out to me.</p>

12

<p>I agree with the last paragraph of post #9 wondering why if you feel a love for medicine, go for it!! Everything you say you want sounds like medicine can give to you, especially if you are interested in biomedical research. I know there is also a biomedical engineering degree.</p>