Some things I learned in my first year at Penn

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>Quick bio- Rising sophomore at penn. Lived in the Quad. Dual degree student. New CC account just cause I feel like starting afresh. </p>

<p>Purpose- Share my unique experience and unique takeaways. It may or may not reflect your own experience, or your own opinion. It'll probably be controversial in nature. Oh and I'll answer any questions.</p>

<p>So I'm not here to provide generic information- so I won't talk about things where I don't really have much useful stuff to say. Like how hard classes are, how the food was to me, how I was <em>amazed</em> by how many club offerings there were, etc. I don't want to waste your time and my time. Feel free to ask me anything though, in the comments.</p>

<p>Making friends
Everyone will tell you that first semester is a time to join a lot of clubs, get out of your comfort zone to meet people, all for the purpose of expanding your network and making a lot of friends. I'm used to having a lot of friends and a handful of close friends, so this wasn't really a worry for me- especially since I already had a handful of guys and female-friends I knew already. However, I find myself currently slightly frustrated. </p>

<p>I met a lot of people first semester (though I would've met 2x more if I had partied more - more on that later) and felt like I had a lot of friends. What I didn't realize, however, is that the hunt for your best friends is the real tough part. By second semester, you'll be hanging out with a "main group" more often, while in first semester you're more in a huge sea of friends. So be aware, friend-groups and cliques will happen. And you should try and figure it out first semester while you're making a lot of friends. It's easy to make a lot of friends, but it's hard to find that perfect group of friends that you enjoy being a part of. </p>

<p>Right now I'm not entirely happy with my "main group" of friends, just due to differences in our goals and personalities. In particular, I drink and socialize a little bit more than them (and I don't really do that stuff very often) and think about my career/grades a little bit less than them. That sounds a little nit-picky, but I feel it a problem when I want to go drink/party on any given weekend and my best friends are never really there for me. I have reach out to other friends if I want to do things that I want to - so it isn't a perfect match (among other smallish differences). And now that I'm a rising sophomore, the chance of me finding a new friend group is fairly difficult. Which is why I feel quasi-forced into pledging a fraternity. More on that later. </p>

<p>The Wharton dichotomy
Another thing, probably more juicy, is how penn's "schools" play into effect. In particular, Wharton. As a dual-degree student in Wharton, I feel more bound to wharton than I am to my other school. Actually... 90% of my friends are Wharton... that is, sort of, a problem.</p>

<p>It's not just me; it's probably everyone. It's because Wharton IS distinct from the college/engineering school. In NSO, there are a few separate events just for Wharton students because of cohort-activities. And the fact that Wharton students take a different core/elective requirements. And that wharton students use huntsman, the newest library at penn (and only Wharton students can log onto those computers, or reserve those GSRs). Then there's MGMT 100, a first semester wharton class that really binds the wharton community together. And other classes of course, which are all wharton and filled with problem sets that you'll work on with other wharton people. & the fact that on campus recruiting is basically for wharton students... and probably a bit more.</p>

<p>The result is all my friends are wharton, and I feel like I go to a 500 students per class small liberal arts college. Not a 2k per class university. When I meet someone and we eventually ask what school we're in, the "I'm in wharton" and "Oh cool I'm in the college studying _____" most often means "Nice to meet you, but we won't really hang out or see each other again". Unless you're a dashingly cute female ;)</p>

<p>It's not arrogance- it's just the fact that our paths won't cross. I'll be doing my problem set for my wharton core classes, be working on those finance internships, be studying in Huntsman, using my Wharton printing... yeah. It's unfortunate. But obviously you will make friends in the college/engineering, just not a whole lot. And it'll sometimes feel against-the-grain because your daily schedules are fundamentally different. The absolute worst is when you meet a college econ major (no offense to them though!) who explains they plan on trying to transfer to Wharton. Jeez, that just makes me feel uneasy. </p>

<p>Frat presence & parties
Penn is something like 30% greek I think, and it's known as the "party school" for the ivies. For uniquely personal reasons, I basically didn't really do much partying or frat stuff first semester. Probably a big mistake, cause now that I want to join a frat, I don't have many connections or information. Also the fact that I missed a huge opportunity to meet more people. The way I feel about it is that frat life creates an "in group" and "out group". Those that are involved in greeklife and those that are not. I feel distinctly in the out-group right now because it's not entirely convenient to get into a frat party (if you don't have "connections" with brothers, you need a female-to-male ratio as high as 5-1), and the fact that more and more people join frats, and the frat becomes their main social circle, with you no longer in it. To give an analogy, frats sort of create an "economic efficiency" by giving an unequal cut in surplus to those in and out... it would be more equally divided if it were not there. Hope you followed that lol. </p>

<p>Partying will definitely be the "hype" early on. I'm sorta conservative, and for a particular personal reason, I didn't join for most of first semester. I was also slightly morally opposed, but not such that I wouldn't drink or party. I ended up feeling some resentment for the sloppier side of hook-up culture- it's just disheartening to see girls confused with what they're doing because they were a goodie-2-shoes their entire life. Things do get more clear by 2nd semester, and more mature as the years go on though. On the topic of the NYT article, f*** that. It's misleading. </p>

<hr>

<p>As a closing note, I did have a great freshman year. It was fun, and as with most freshmen years, full of adventure and stories to tell. As you might've guessed, there are a few regrets, but on a positive note, that just means I have more aspirations for next year. </p>

<p>Oh and as I'm re-reading this, I realize it's fairly negative. This isn't meant to be a "snapshot" of my freshmen year, just some unique things and under-spoken things that I've learned. It's my own personal takeaway anyways, not necessarily yours. </p>

<p>I hope this was insightful. Ask me anything.</p>

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<p>Wow. I’m glad I never considered Penn.</p>

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<p>Did you feel intimidated while you were in class - either by professors or students?</p>

<p>Did you cook by yourself a lot - if at all? </p>

<p>Is it hard getting around through campus? I visited Rice a while ago, and I found it a bit rough to get around despite its small size. Not a lot of the buildings were labeled, and the map was hard to read.</p>

<p>Did you take advantage of the One University policy? If you did, what other classes did you get?</p>

<p>Did you by any chance have Professor Greenhalgh? How was she (if you had her)?</p>

<p>How math intensive is Wharton? How is the general workload? Are the classes lecture-based or more discussion-oriented?</p>

<p>I’m sorry if this is too personal, but what were your stats? </p>

<p>I’m also sorry for the plethora of questions. It’s just that UPenn, specifically Wharton, is my dream school.</p>

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<p>@iamoym</p>

<p>Professors are not intimidating. They’re just rather unhelpful at the lower level massive 100+ student classes.</p>

<p>You won’t cook much because you’re tied to the meal plan first first year. The meal plan sucks lol.</p>

<p>I’m a dual degree so I’m technically in 2 schools, so I’m somewhat forced to do the “one university” policy and take classes not in my home school. </p>

<p>Greenhalgh is really short</p>

<p>Wharton is not math intensive at all, unless you want it to be. So it isn’t for 90% of us. Workload is pretty easy.</p>

<p>My stats… 2350+ and top 5% of my public school.</p>

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<p>@zentiger: Thanks for the quick reply. </p>

<p>I’m a little worried about my subpar (well, at least for Penn) SAT score of 2150, but I’m in the top 4% at my high school and have scored well on my APs (5s on Lang, US Hist., Psych; 4 on World Hist. - I will be taking AP Bio, Lit, Econ, Govt, Studio Art, and Calc BC next year). I’m planning on taking my subject tests in October (Math II, Bio, and possibly Lit), so hopefully I’ll score 750+ on those. I also have 2 leadership positions in school clubs, and have started 2 businesses (one being a tutoring business and the other, a craft business).</p>

<p>Hopefully in addition with good essays, I’ll get accepted through ED. I’m trying not to get my hopes up too high. I only applied to one other school (a state school that I’ll get into through automatic admits), so I’m really putting all my efforts into the Penn app, haha (not really - I’m crying inside).</p>

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<p>this is a really weird question but do you have allergies…im wondering how intense the allergy season is at penn</p>

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<p>I find it very interesting that you do not mention the greater area you live in - Philadelphia. Have you tried making connections to the city and community you are part of - and find out if there are friends to be had outside of school?</p>

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<p>@abudhabi</p>

<p>Haha actually I was planning on changing/adding stuff to my post (not to mention revising) but looks like I can’t edit anymore after like 5 minutes. Didn’t know about that and now I regret publishing the thread so early :(</p>

<p>Anyways, Philadelphia is nice. It’ll be underutilized for sure, but mostly used for down town parties and BYO dinners (fun!!). I believe there’s a bar scene too, but I don’t know too much about it. If you’re talking about taking a stroll down city center on weekends, penn students don’t really do that. Somewhat unfortunate.</p>

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<p>Which dual-degree, out of curiosity?</p>

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<p>

Just to provide some balance (and I realize that you emphasized that this is based just on your own personal experience), I personally know of MANY Penn undergrads–including lots in your class–who have had a completely different experience than yours when it comes to mixing with and forming friendships with people from other schools, including LOTS of Wharton students. In fact, I think if you conducted a representative survey of your classmates, you’d find that many Wharton folks have become very good friends with non-Wharton people, are in ECs with them, and will be living with them as roommates next year. THAT is the more common Penn experience–BY FAR–at least based on my experience with Penn, and the experiences of the many Penn undergrads and alums I have known, going back for DECADES.</p>

<p>Yes, Wharton has its own curriculum, physical spaces, and academic concerns, but so do Nursing and SEAS, as well as Anthropology majors, Physics majors, Linguistics majors, Bio majors, etc., etc. And yet they ALL seem to mix with each other quite well at Penn in terms of living arrangements, ECs, friendships, etc., and have been doing so at Penn for centuries. It’s kind of a hallmark of Penn, and if you haven’t gotten that yet, you’ve really been missing out on one of the things that makes Penn special.</p>

<p>I’d recommend that you make a special effort this year to get outside of your apparent Wharton bubble, and find more non-Wharton people through ECs, social events, non-Wharton classes (the average Wharton undergrad takes 40% of his/her classes outside of Wharton, although you may be a bit more restricted in your choices because of your dual-degree program) and–perhaps most importantly–through curiosity about and openness to the lives and experiences of people with academic interests that are different than yours. Again, that’s what many–if not MOST–Penn undergrads do, including most in Wharton, and their Penn experience is much richer for it.</p>

<p>And I have to dispute your characterization of on-campus recruiting as “basically for Wharton students.” I know of MANY, MANY non-Wharton undergrads and alums who would strongly disagree based on their own personal experiences, not to mention the career surveys, publications, personnel, and facilities of the Career Services Office devoted to non-Wharton students. Again, sounds like you need to get out of the Wharton bubble you put yourself in freshman year. :)</p>

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<p>Rising dual-degree Junior here and I agree with everything pointed out by zentiger, particularly the Wharton dichotomy. </p>

<p>@abudhabi-mama: Philadelphia is, honestly, quite a negative. It doesn’t have the awesome, relatively safe, packed to the brim with activities, urban environment of New York and nor does it have the beautiful surroundings of Hanover (Dartmouth). It’s just meh. I like to frequent Gaybourhood and the BYOs on the weekends to get away from campus. But yeah most students see Philly as a negative, probably because it’s quite unsafe and dirty.</p>

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<p>Philadelphia is a great city. The only problem is for some reason, some students (a small minority) are fairly vocal about their negative opinion of it. It is not more dangerous than any other big city, except that unlike places like Chicago, it is more integrated and there is less of a divide between different groups.
The only time I really thought of the Wharton students as a separate group was during OCR (definitely not completely true) because it really brings out the worst in the campus. Frankly, I don’t care about business AT ALL, even though I could probably go into investment banking if I wanted to due to the very quantitative nature of my major. However, I have absolutely no interest and most of my friends (many in my major or similar majors) want to go into academia, which is pretty much the polar opposite of business. And Penn helps us thrive by providing us with tons of research opportunities and the chance to take grad courses and even submatriculate. There are even awards in the sciences which are only open to people in the specific major.</p>

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<p>^ Definitely agree with Poeme on Philly being a great city, especially for college students. The vast majority of Penn undergrads–and alumni–view Philly as a major POSITIVE aspect of their Penn experiences. They love the 300 (actual number–NOT an exaggeration) sidewalk cafes in Center City, the incredible BYO scene, the breadth and depth of great ethnic restaurants both in the immediately surrounding University City neighborhood and in and around Center City, the Reading Terminal Market (largest and oldest indoor food market in the country), and the Italian Market. And that’s just the food scene. :rolleyes: Then there are the incredible art museums (putting Philly among the top 2 or 3 cities in the country in that regard); and great neighborhoods like Old City, Rittenhouse Square, Society Hill, South Street, Northern Liberties, Fairmount, and of course Penn’s own University City, in addition to many more. And oh yeah, the largest urban park system in the world (again, actual fact–no exaggeration). Not to mention more murals and public art than any other city in the world (even Paris, France sent folks to Philly to learn more about its world-renowned Mural Arts program, as something they might be able to copy in Paris). And then there’s the classical and live music scene, the more than 50 professional theater companies (only bested by NYC and Chicago in terms of its professional theater scene), etc., etc., yada, yada, yada.</p>

<p>To put it bluntly, you’d have to be a complete cultural troglodyte, an unabashed Philly-hater, or a superficial know-it-all who refuses to explore what Philly REALLY has to offer, to view Philly as “quite a negative.” And no, most students and alums DO NOT see Philly as a negative, iamanapp’s persistent trash-talking about it notwithstanding. Try asking some of the 31,000 yearly applicants, 10,000 current undergrads, or hundreds of thousands of alumni what they think of Philly and its impact on the Penn experience, and you’ll quickly learn that.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>zentiger’s experience with friends replicates what I think is the most common pattern for college students everywhere – for me almost 40 years ago, for my kids only a few years ago, for most of the people I know. You spend your first semester becoming instant friends with a bunch of random people, mainly those who live near you or whom you meet in basic classes. Then you spend your second semester realizing that you don’t really want to be close friends with a lot of those people, and extricating yourself a bit from those relationships. Your core of long-term college friends may start coalescing then, but really gets formed in your sophomore year and even later.</p></li>
<li><p>Funny 45 Percenter should mention “the largest urban park system in the world (. . . actual fact, no exaggeration).” Umm, I think that turns out to be urban folklore rather than actual fact, and it is quite exaggerated. Philadelphia’s Fairmount Park is 4,167 acres, and its total park system is about 9,100 acres. Los Angeles’ Griffith Park is just over 4,214 acres and claims to be the largest municipally owned park in the world (which is also wrong). In fact, neither of them is in the top 10 in the U.S., even if you exclude national parks and forests that are only partially within a city. Phoenix, Portland, Houston, and Anchorage all clearly have more park area than Philadelphia, and Los Angeles probably does, too. <a href=“http://cloud.tpl.org/pubs/ccpe-largest-oldest-most-visited-parks-4-2011-update.pdf[/url]”>http://cloud.tpl.org/pubs/ccpe-largest-oldest-most-visited-parks-4-2011-update.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
</ol>

<p>That’s OK, 45 Percenter. I used to say (and think) that about Fairmount Park, too. Until a few years ago, when I saw the Griffith Park claim, and started to research the question.</p>

<p>All of that said, Fairmount Park is amazing. You can walk from the banks of the Schuylkill River across from Penn’s Franklin Field to the northwestern border of the city, a distance of about 17 miles, without crossing more than two city streets (a block apart, at about mile 6). Some of it is groomed and formal, like Central Park, and some is wild and free, sprinkled with ruins of 18th century factories.</p>

<ol>
<li> Philadelphia is not anywhere near as glitzy and sophisticated as New York, LA, or Chicago, but there’s a lot going on, and it is very student-friendly and comparatively cheap. College students really matter here, and get catered to quite a bit, which is not the case in the aforementioned cities. It is not as affluent as New York, but it is not horribly depressed and dangerous, either.</li>
</ol>

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<p>

Note that I said “largest urban park SYSTEM,” and not just Fairmount Park proper. But either way, I see your point. Alhough the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation, among others, DOES refer to the Farimount Park System as “one of the world’s largest city park systems”:</p>

<p>[Fairmount</a> Park Philadelphia - visitphilly.com](<a href=“http://www.visitphilly.com/outdoor-activities/philadelphia/fairmount-park/]Fairmount”>Fairmount Park | Visit Philadelphia)</p>

<p>I’ve also seen it called the largest landscaped urban park system in the US, if not the world. In any event–and semantics and relative superlatives aside–you’re right that the Fairmount Park system is quite extraordinary and unique, and really unsurpassed among urban parks (regardless of total acreage :slight_smile: ).</p>

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<p>I’m sure that at some point along the way the park system in Philadelphia was the world’s largest municipal system. But the list I posted has two municipal parks in Phoenix with about 23,600 acres (and there’s another 16,000 acres in Scottsdale that is contiguous with a 7,500-acre Phoenix park), a single municipal park in Houston that is bigger than the whole Philadelphia system (who knew?), plus a county (county?) park half a mile away that is by itself almost twice as big as the main Fairmount Park. And those are the two cities closest to Philadelphia in size and population. Portland OR, less than half of Philly’s size, has about 11,000 park acres in its park system. I couldn’t find numbers on Los Angeles, but it clearly has much more park space than Philly, split between municipal and state parks (and LA has its patchwork of unincorporated municipalities to confuse things).</p>

<p>One relevant difference is that all of the Fairmount Park system in Philadelphia had to be purchased and contributed to the park. It was mostly developed in the 18th Century, and it is still dotted with mansions (and, as I said, the ruins of old mills along the Wissahickon and Cresheim Creeks). I don’t know about Houston, but the parks in Phoenix, Portland, and LA were pretty clearly never settled.</p>

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<p>^ Also not sure how those cities use the term “park.” As you’re no doubt aware, some western cities tend to swallow up surrounding and suburban areas through continual annexation, leading to massive undeveloped or less developed areas within their technical city limits (Houston is especially known for this). So it could be, as you imply, that much of what they call “park” land is actually just areas within their technical city limits that they haven’t gotten around to developing yet.</p>

<p>But again, I think the claim is not that Philly has more park land than any other city in the country, but that it has one of the largest unified park systems (if you consider the Fairmount Park System as a single entity) in the country. Maybe it’s just semantics, but the Fairmount Park System–or even just Fairmount Park, itself–is still rather extraordinary, especially for an older East Coast city.</p>

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<p>I have heard a few horror stories about MGMT 100. What were your experiences with that class?</p>

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<p>Thought it was a great experience. Most people bond generally well with their team, and it’s a great place to make some friends. Some less than others. The people that hate it are the ones that feel they got “screwed” by the grading, which is murkier than your other classes. But it’s not a “subjective mess” as some would say. </p>

<p>Way more engaging than your typical core class that has lectures and midterms.</p>

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<p>@iamoym I disagree with zentiger. While I agree with his notion that the cohort system is an excellent way to meet new people and make some friends, the class IS a “subjective mess” which could either help you a ton or destroy you. And I’m not speaking from bitterness–I did better than I deserved to. The classes are divided in to 6 teams of 10. You work with your team on a particular project. There are two layers of determining the grade: the first layer is where your team ranks out of 6. The second layer is where you rank on your team. On a top ranked team (determined by the professor based on how good the team appears), the majority of the students will get As no matter how competent or incompetent they were. On the bottom ranked team, majority of the team will get Bs. There is only one person who determines your rank on the team–your TA. And his decision is based solely on not what you do, but rather what you seem like you’re doing. This helps some and hurts others. I know students who did the most work on there team but still got screwed because not enough people recognized it. I’ve noticed the reverse–people who schemed to seem like they did something even though they didn’t. Even still, people who did the minimal on their team but still did well because the team was perceived as good. It is a political game, so play it well. As to the subject matter in the class, it is extremely un-engaging and universally regarded as “bs” content. The professors aren’t bad, but the content is frustrating because it is reminiscent of elementary education. In the end, if you approach the class knowing that in order to do well, you need to appear very competent and active, you should not have a problem. Even on the lowest ranked team, there will still be a about two people who get A range.</p>