<p>I just came back from visiting stanford and caltech and im totally split between the two in terms of social atmosphere, feel, etc. Now I only have a few days left to decide. What I want to do is go to the place that will give me the best engineering education, and best shot at whatever grad school I want to go to. Ive had the impression before that Stanford is a place I should go to for grad school, not undergrad. Yet, Stanford always ranks at the top of the undergrad engineering rankings while caltech is always a bit below. Could somebody please give me hard evidence showing that one is probably better than the other?</p>
<p>I don't have any numbers, but I would say that this decision is only difficult if you are NOT POSITIVE you are going into engineering...in that case, stanford seems to be the logical choice based on its overall prowess...if you ARE POSITIVE, I'd say it's a coin flip...i would personally have a very hard time rejecting stanford ;)</p>
<p>yeah im pretty positive i want to go into engineering or applied science</p>
<p>When I was visiting Stanford as a prospective grad student, one of the engineering professors I met with said he loved Caltech students because of how ridiculously smart they are. He added that he didn't even care if the student had a lousy GPA, because he knows how difficult the school is. </p>
<p>This is just one professor, but I can't imagine his views are really that radical.</p>
<p>Both have really really awesome engineering programs, though Stanford might have a slight edge, even for undergrad. The difference for you should come down to personal fit (school size, atmosphere, etc.).</p>
<p>Exactly why does stanford have a slight edge for undergrad?</p>
<p>General rankings (NRC, US News, etc.).</p>
<p>Hard evidence is difficult, since much depends on the individual student. Both are great schools, but Stanford has a bigger range of engineering courses, while Caltech, being a smaller school, has fewer engineering courses. Caltech is more focused on the sciences, while Stanford is excellent in both science and engineering. As an undergraduate you may not notice much difference, but if you do get interested in a particular engineering area, you are more likely to be able to explore it in depth at Stanford, while at Caltech that particular area may have few courses offered. You can't go wrong with either choice, though.</p>
<p>Caltech is also known to be more on the theoretical side rather than applied, so you might want to consider that.</p>
<p>I think the lifestyle issue is very important here. I believe that Stanford intends to provide a more well-rounded education, and it's very exciting to meet students here with diverse backgrounds, interests, and perspectives. A friend of mine here said that Caltech is more homogenously techie and nerdy. (He uses "nerdy" with a positive connotation; perhaps you know what I mean.) Since my impression is that the schools would be quite different in these aspects, what makes you feel "split" between the two in terms of "feel"?</p>
<p>If im not going to notice much difference in the engineering as an undergrad, am I just better off saving Stanford for grad school then? Yeah ive heard Caltech is more theoretical but I dont know how this will come into play for me. I want to go to grad school and then get a job in industry. I do want to do something that has applications, but I see myself as more of the guy designing some device than soddering and putting it together if thats what the difference is. Will a more theoretical education do me well for grad school and then I can learn the applied stuff later? I have pretty much no idea how a theoretical education vs. an applied one will effect me in the long run. I know the lifestyle issue is important but I really cant tell which id prefer since I havent lived at either place for a good amount of time. I did like the caltech people a lot. The pranks and nerdy culture there definitely appeal to me. At the same time, I couldnt visit Stanford for its prefrosh weekend so I dont have as good a feel for stanford students in general, although I know they are much more diverse. But the engineers I talked to at Stanford seemed like really cool people too. There are two main things I want out of undergrad school I think. The first is to get into my top choice grad school. Caltech seems to have the upper hand on this. It seems like the majority of people going on to gradschool from caltech are getting into top places. 20 caltech undergrads are going to Stanford this year. My second priority is to figure out what exactly I want to do in applied science or engineering. CS, aero ,mechE ,chemE , EE , im completely unsure what I want to do. Stanford seems to have the upperhand on this since it seems to offer more courses and appears to be more lenient on its requirements. So im still split...</p>
<p>If you're concerned about getting into a good grad school, you can consider Stanford's coterm program, which makes it pretty easy for current undergrads to continue for 1 year and get a master's degree as well (you have to apply, but as long as you maintain, say, a 3.0 ugrad GPA, you get in).</p>
<p>Yeah, so you pretty much have a graduate and undergraduate education. In 5 years. So look into the coterm program at Stanford.</p>
<p>or 4 years in case you're hardworker genius</p>
<p>Actually, I heard from a student at stanford that the coterm program is useless if I want to get a PhD. You pay for an extra year of tuition when at most grad programs, you pick up your masters on the way to a PhD, usually while getting paid a stipend at the same time. Not that I dont like the idea of the coterm program. It seems to be a good option if I would want to get a job right away. So it is a plus, but not a deciding factor.</p>
<p>Look, I've spoken to tons of college alumnis, especially many Ph. D students, and they strong, strongly, STRONGLY advise against getting your bachelor's, master's and Ph. D degrees concurrently. Out of high school, you shouldn't spend 8-10 years going straight for your Ph.D. Or even less time for your master's. I was speaking to one of my economics teachers, who studied at Wharton for his undergraduate studies in finance and, 10 years after graduating, obtained his master's degree in education at Stanford, and he tells me that graduate school is one of the few opportunities in one's life to switch fields of interest. What if you work your butt off for 8 years, get an advanced degree, and realize you hate what you're doing? Or that the field you've chosen isn't lucrative enough for you? My teacher had the opportunity to do just that; he worked in financial firms for several years, realized he didn't enjoy the industry he put himself in, and decided instead to follow his newfound passion of teaching. You think you may like engineering now, but what if you wind up in a financial firm doing investment backing after college (which countless engineers, in fact, get recruited to do), and gain exposure to the business consulting world, and realize you'd like to pursue your MBA instead. Hey, this exact scenario happened to one of my brother's friends.</p>
<p>There should be a sizable gap between your undergraduate years and your graduate years, because you don't want to waste all your educational years towards a degree you might end up regretting anyways. You should take some time off after your bachelor's to really gain experience in the field you've pursued, obtain some jobs, and get a feel for what it's like in the real world. Not only will the experience make graduate school placement much easier, but it will also give you a sense of whether you've made the right choice. If you have made the right choice, awesome, you have some experience to back you up in grad school. If you haven't, then graduate school can be an (once in a lifetime) opportunity to shift focus.</p>
<p>If you feel getting a master's degree sooner is somehow better for you, Stanford offers that option. But you really shouldn't be too concerned about graduate school placement, and instead prioritize other factors of your undergraduate education. This is why I feel Stanford may be superior to Caltech for most people. Maybe not for you, but for most people.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you're concerned about getting into a good grad school, you can consider Stanford's coterm program, which makes it pretty easy for current undergrads to continue for 1 year and get a master's degree as well (you have to apply, but as long as you maintain, say, a 3.0 ugrad GPA, you get in).
[/quote]
Actually, the co-term program here is somewhat competitive, especially for certain Engineering majors. You definitely have to have a decent GRE score too.</p>
<p>CrazyGlue, I was in exactly the same situation you are in up until yesterday. I was deciding between Stanford and Caltech, I had visited Stanford early last week and then gone to Prefrosh Weekend at Caltech. I returned home feeling that socially I could easily fit into either school and I wanted to base my decision on academics. I definitely know I want to major in engineering although I'm not yet sure which type specifically (deciding between electrical, computer science, mechanical, and financial/management). In fact I read all your threads to help me make my decision. Like you, my family does not qualify for need-based financial aid, the only difference is that I was offered a full-tuition scholarship at Caltech, but my parents and I decided that I would not consider that as a factor when I made my decision.</p>
<p>What finally made me decide to choose Stanford was the greater range of classes offered, the diversity of the student body, the more applied focus of its education, and the fact that they accept AP credit. I'm going to elaborate on each of these points separately.</p>
<p>-Go to the Caltech and Stanford websites and go to their respective course catalogs. Pick a major you're interested in and compare the number and breadth of classes offered for that major.</p>
<p>-In the real world, you will have to interact with a myriad of different people. Spending four years at a college where everyone has basically the same interests will not prepare you for life after college.</p>
<p>-This is just my personal opinion but I think that an applied education prepares you better for employment after college than does a theoretical education. Caltech graduates have often been stereotyped as being really smart but not knowing how to apply their knowledge in a real world situation.</p>
<p>-I took many APs in high school and getting credit for all that hard work is always nice :) plus this gives me the chance to take more electives.</p>
<p>I hope this helps you, PM me if you have any questions.</p>