Someone wanna defend Smith?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
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<p>{They say on their websites they are need blind -and I know students accepted to those schools who had need}</p>

<p>Of course they accept students with need. All colleges do. So what?<br>
{Now I just think you're blowing hot-air out your butt.}</p>

<p>Nice language. But I know the facts
Smith claims to be need blind also but will admit to being <em>need sensitive</em> for the last 5% of apps, or so, if they have exhausted their aid budget. I have been informed of this <em>personally</em> by admissions and others. Same with Swath and Uchicago. They HAVE a budget.</p>

<p>btw- If you couldn't do the work at UChicago, Swath would have eaten you alive</p>

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<p>Hmm... it surprises me that a school which only accepts 20 transfers says they're need-blind when they're actually need-sensitive to a good-# of those candidates. In other words, I'm not convinced. Smith has a more limited budget than Swarthmore, certainly.</p>

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<p>You aren't like an angry Smith student who was rejected as a transfer to some school, are you? That's what you're starting to sound a little like to me.</p>

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<p>{it surprises me that a school which only accepts 20 transfers says they're need-blind when they're actually need-sensitive to a good-# of those candidates}</p>

<p>I never said they were need sensitive to a good number of students. I said if they have exhausted their budget. You may very well have been accepted on your own merits,</p>

<p>{{You aren't like an angry Smith student who was rejected as a transfer to some school, were you?}}</p>

<p>You win. I wasn’t accepted to Smith in the first place. I refused to have the required sex change operation.</p>

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<p>jesus, how much do you even know about Smith then? Are you a parent? Were you just bsing? Where do you go to school? I'm going to bed, so I can get up for my rigorous work schedule tomorrow... I hope you also have something better to do than pick fights on CC.</p>

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<p>how much do you even know about Smith then? }</p>

<p>Much more than you apparently.
You weren’t even aware of the med school admit rates, at the same time you continually questioned the college’s prestige, honesty of their ranking, or rigor of coursework. </p>

<p>I suppose I owe you some explanation if I’m going to question your views, truthfulness and motives. I’ve have been affiliated with Smith for over 25 years and am still affiliated with the college--including to talking with board members. I would hazard to guess I know a bit more than you after your short 3 semesters at a college you didn’t want to attend in the first place.</p>

<p>{I hope you also have something better to do than pick fights on CC.}</p>

<p>Not tonight :) I'm working on a second round of funding for a company I’m involved with and am procrastinating looking at the PowerPoint presentation. I never claimed to be mature or to always show the appropriate sense of decorum as TD, et al manage to do. I will readily admit I can be a complete ass when it pertains to Smith and exposing untruths.
I don’t drink, per se, beat my kids or wife-- although I do kill moles and mice if I get the chance--, consequently being a part-time ass is my vice. Everyone is allowed one.</p>

<p>Besides, you started the thread, remember?</p>

<p>I will, however; acknowledge the quality of rankings, like women, wives, and the weather are subjective to a certain degree. I would never dissuade an intelligent student from questioning what they believe to be inaccuracies. But you have to admit, your original post wasn’t what one would call tactful ( not that I am) or based on the slightest bit of fact. Continue to question all aspects of life or published opinions masquerading as facts if you believe they are in error. Also keep searching for the college where you belong--there is one out there-- good luck.!!</p>

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<p>Smith is in the top two percent for graduate and professional school admissions. And Smith graduates are heavily over-represented in the upper levels of industry and government, from CEO's to Congress.</p>

<p>A friend of D's who is a junior transferred from Smith to Brown this year. She says that the grading is a <em>little</em> harder but that the workload is definitely lighter.</p>

<p>I know a number of Smith students who would be "best students" who didn't choose to go to the "best co-ed" schools as the OP asserts. I don't know all Smith students but I know quite a few and none of them are idiots and virtually all are working their butts off. I spoke to D about this earlier today and she said that B's are relatively easy to get, A's much more difficult...a pattern that matches Stanford, Harvard, and many of the Ivies. D certainly had better grades/scores out of high school than the OP and has had no problem feeling challenged by her classes at all. I listen to the stress in D's voice around mid-terms and finals and I listen to her compare notes with classmates afterwards and <em>none</em> of them are unchallenged. As another note, I think if you read that skewed sample posting on DailyJolt, you will find enough testimony, both explicit and implicit, about the rigor of Smith.</p>

<p>D's comment about the OP: she's not obviously in the Math/Sciences. And that "doing all the readings" is a superficial standard for engagement and achievement in a class. There are classes/profs who aren't rigorous (I suspect that this occurs virtually anywhere) but if rigor is what you want, there's plenty there and you avoid the profs/classes that aren't.</p>

<p>RLT: I save my vice for politics, where I line up as a free safety.</p>

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<p>Yes, well that bit about Brown is interesting, since the average GPA at Brown is higher than the average GPA at Smith. It also makes the rather large difference between Smith and UChi (which has a lower average GPA) fall into place and make sense. It also means the SAT ranges of a student body nearly perfectly reflect where I would fall within that student body, at least for my SAT (700 M, 780 V). It's just nice to know, that is all. </p>

<p>As far as being challenging for many students, TD, I know Smith is. I think by defintion, a college will feel challenging to the average student there, and less challenging to the top students, and if a given student was to move to a more or less selective school, she would be met with more or less challenge relative to that school's average GPA accordingly.</p>

<p>I was actually in science last year, but I am considering switching to environmental POLICY because I am much better at liberal arts. I maintain that <1/2 the students in all my classes willingly participated in-class regularly, with the exception of Adv Gen Chem, and because I was used to more participation in hs that can be frustrating. I think student's perceptions of schools as "challenging" or "unchallenging" has a lot to do with what high school they attended, unless they ARE actually a 4.0 college student, which is very rare.</p>

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<p>refutation to your thesis: my D is one of the top students at Smith and feels challenged there...she's not one of the average students. She went to one of the better, most competitive, public high schools in SoCal and both her SAT scores were better than yours, the Math significantly so. </p>

<p>Like you, she applied to three extremely competitive schools--HYS--and didn't get in. Unlike you, she saw a value in Smith such that she took it over Wellesley, and probably would have taken it over Harvard & Stanford, might have taken it over Yale, might not, by the time the dust settled. Now she says that she wouldn't go anywhere else even if offered a full ride. </p>

<p>Your experience is what you say it is. The experience that she has had, and the experience I can extrapolate by observation listening to her housemates, her other fellow students on a trip to NYC, or the other students at the prospect parties (yesterday was my fourth) here in L.A. largely conflict with that.</p>

<p>A final note on her friend at Brown: she is unhappy at Brown for the same reasons she was at Smith. She has concluded, belatedly, that her unhappiness stemmed from within, not the environment, and would prefer to be back at Smith except that transferring again would be so dorky.</p>

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<p>I do not attend smith yet, but I do not a bit about it since I am transferring in. I certainly did NOT have the impression that smith is an easy school. The admission rate may be high, but it shouldn't be compared to just any school. Smith has a different application pool. The people that apply to, say, NYU on a whim, just to see if they get in will NOT necessarily apply to Smith. Although Smith is a great school, I dont think its really one of those schools that you apply to just to SEE if you can get in and then brag about it. Therefore, less people apply.</p>

<p>Also, although regular admission to smith may seem high, transfer admission is very low. I was told by my interviewer at smith that they only accept 100 transfers every year, 80-90 in the fall and 10-20 in the spring. Acceptance as a transfer is about 36%, and obviously much less for the spring. </p>

<p>Escape, I know you dont want this thread to be about YOU, but as I said before, it really depends what types of classes you are taking and how you are challenging YOURSELF. Its easy to take the classes you are interested in and do well. You said that math and science arent your strong areas. Im sure it would be a huge challenge to take one of these classes! What about taking extra classes? </p>

<p>Again, as Ive said before, I left TWO colleges because they were far too easy and I hated the environment. BUT, if I really loved everything about these schools besides the "easy" part, I COULD have stayed and done my best to make it harder. I could have taken more courses, taken courses in things I suspect will be harder, joined the honors program, more clubs, etc. I dont know if these apply to you, but im sure SOME of them do.</p>

<p>You ask why Smith has such a good reputation. Historically, Smith DOES have a good reputation. Many well known women have gone there. But why does smith have this reputation NOW? My personal opinion (although it may be less accurate than people who actually GO there right now) is that Smith students are just different from other students. I dont know how to explain it-thats just the impression I got. I didnt meet any "ditzy" girls when I visited. They all seemed to be pretty grounded. </p>

<p>In terms of not doing homework, I faced the same problems in my old schools. I was the only one who did homework. But I think there is a difference. Do Smith students just NOT do their homework? Do they BS every test and paper ever given to them? Do they pray for classes to be canceled and roll their eyes at everything they are taught? Do they leave class 15 min early and talk on their phones during class? Probably not. Many schools are like this-ive been to two already. Smith, from what I see, is not like that at all. You will always have you fair share of BSers and people that dont do ALL the readings. Does that mean they dont CARE? No, I dont think so. </p>

<p>When I was leaving the last school I attended, I told some teachers why I was leaving. They all told me that even Smith will have slackers. Every school does. If you go to yale, I am sure that some people will not do their homework either. It may be unfair to say that smith doesnt deserve its reputation because some students dont work very hard. From what I have seen and been told, smith students work VERY hard. Maybe the work isnt as hard as you would like, but do you work hard for it? In my opinion, thats what matters.</p>

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<p>SC, about reading: my D is assigned more reading than she can do...and she's a very fast reader. She does a triage: what must be read, what she'd like to read, what she'll read if she can. Doesn't stop her from participating in class...she's one of those you'd be hard pressed to keep from participating.</p>

<p>Before last night, I'd never heard of students enjoying the classes so much that several routinely got there 10-15 minutes early.</p>

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<p>TheDad, I am the same way. Just because you cannot finish ALL the reading doesnt mean you arent a great student.</p>

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<p>ecape said {I know UChi is tougher than Smith. Like WAY tougher}</p>

<p>How do you know that?</p>

<p>You said you never ended up transferring to UChicago. even though you led everyone to believe you were there for a time.</p>

<p>“I never spent money on a period I dropped out of, for instance. I ended up not transferring to UChi. Secondly,”</p>

<p>Post #12</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=135386%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=135386&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Because I did sit in on classes for a few weeks at UChi, but the school refunded all my money when I went to the deans and told them I didn't think transferring to UChi was a good idea for me. I had expressed doubts to an academic counselor before the fall term began, and had pre-emptively learned that all students were allowed a couple of weeks to see how things went. I will agree throughout the whole transfer process I was flaky. I wish times-10 I had visited schools before I applied, looked at syllabi, etc. It was a bit of a nightmare decision to make last minute, but I'm glad I have only finished terms at Smith so that I am not in the same position as that girl who transferred to Brown and later realized it wasn't what she expected. So I wound up taking the fall semester off to work, practice art, read, etc. That is why I have been talking about my sophomore year at Smith in the future tense, because it will be beginning in the spring. I'm going to go back to Smith with a more positive attitude, and hopefully I will be able to transfer somewhere that's not quite so different from Smith, like Bowdoin, Middlebury, etc, but I know spending four years at Smith is not the end of the world.</p>

<p>For what it is worth, regarding the experience of the girl who transferred to Brown, my general impression now that I have looked at syllabi from a number of different schools is that liberal-arts colleges tend to have heavier workloads b/c of their intimate environment and the fact that teachers can spend more time on their classes. The difficulty of grading is a completely different issue, which depends on where you fall in the student body, as well as the grade inflation at a given school.</p>

<p>To TD: I would actually be curious to talk to your daughter, as her experience does seem different from mine. I have been able to finish all my reading, and I do not consider myself a fast reader (although I would say reading and writing are my strengths). My hs's exiting SAT scores was mid-50% 1300-1500 and academics were the center of life, which would be unusual at a large public hs, even a competitive one. I went to school with some brilliant people and everyone knew everyone else intimately, so my hunch is that might be the reason my expectations are different than your daughter's. Which doesn't make them right, just different.</p>

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<p>{{Because I did sit in on classes for a few weeks at UChi,}}</p>

<p>You sat in on <em>only</em> 9 classes of each subject (assuming each course met three times a week) and from that deduced Chicago was much more difficult? Unbelievable! How do you know there weren’t as many slackers at UChicago as you say there are at Smith? Did you poll all of them also?</p>

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<p>{{and academics were the center of life, which would be unusual at a large public hs, even a competitive one. I went to school with some brilliant people and everyone knew everyone else intimatel so my hunch is that might be the reason my expectations are different than your daughter's. Which doesn't make them right, just different.}}}</p>

<p>Now you’re making a bit of sense. I still don’t agree with you about Smith and it’s rigor, or lack of, however.</p>

<p>Ecape, as hard as this may be to believe, I’m actually starting to like you and feel some empathy for you. I believe you made some bad choices but are readily admitting to the mistakes, which takes an honest and strong woman to do so. If you would stop criticizing Smith for one moment, I believe numerous people would be here to help you</p>

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<p>I think I actually sat in on 9 classes in each subject, and just about EVERY SINGLE PERSON in my classes at UChi, both introductory and advanced, came into class having done all the homework and wanting to talk in class. It was very intense. Whereas at my Intro Gov class at Smith, the teacher spent most of the time explaining what the ancient philosophers had written, and out of 10 I was literally the only person who came into class understanding most of the reading, in my intro soc class at UChi which covered ancients most of the students came into the class understanding the reading and the class dove right in to debating the concepts. Several students in my intro Bio course were asking very complex questions, that went above and beyond our textbook. This almost never happened in my chem classes at Smith. A sophomore friend I made that had a 3.5 at UChi, read Plato's republic four times in three translatioins before he wrote a 5-pg paper on it. And out of class, all the students I met were very well-read compared to students I met at Smith, and they appeared to study more. From every experience I had while I was there for a month, students were more intense and studious than either Smith OR my high school, which I perceive to be moreso than Smith.</p>

<p>That is not meant to be a criticism of Smith. Just a frank comparison of the two schools.</p>

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<p>{I think I actually sat in on 9 classes in each subject}</p>

<p>You did say a few weeks. My mistake. I changed my number.</p>

<p>You were at UChicago and drew from the experience you had. I’ll not argue you perceived what you did. I wasn’t there.</p>

<p>{That is not meant to be a criticism of Smith. Just a frank comparison of the two schools}</p>

<p>Fair enough</p>

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<p>Also, I'd just like to make the point to TD, that just because your daughter considers Smith challenging, does not mean she would not find a school on Wellesley or Carleton's selectivity level MORE challenging. I am glad Smith is a good fit for her, though.</p>

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<p>{You sat in on <em>only</em> 9 classes of each subject (assuming each course met three times a week) and from that deduced Chicago was much more difficult? Unbelievable! How do you know there weren’t as many slackers at UChicago as you say there are at Smith? Did you poll all of them also?}</p>

<p>RLT...I think you're softening up a bit much. Please refer to your quote above. Right after you asked Ecape to stop criticizing Smith, she goes right back at it in her next post. This woman doesn't get, and is pulling our chains. Ahhhh, if only she were bright enough to leave Smith and attend "Harvard"! I'm certain she would be challenged there. <em>LOL</em> </p>

<p>This woman simply wants to put down everywhere she has attended; I would say she feels she is "too good" for these schools. Maybe she should go back to high school for a post-grad year; after all, it's more challenging, and I'm sure mom and dad won't mind flipping the bill! Ecape appears to have a self fulfilling prophecy that no school is good enough for her. Oh, poor Ecape. Poor, poor, Ecape!</p>