<p>It would be interesting for someone to post their "top 25" letter and the regular "courtesy" waitlist letter to actually see the comparison. If nothing else, it would clear up whether it is 25 people vs 25 boys and 25 girls.</p>
<p>My thoughts on goaliedad's idea about the phone calls: the information would still spread. Someone would post here about their phone call, or tell another friend at their school about the phone call. In the information age in which we live today, it is hard to keep things secret. This whole system of different letters does seem a bit odd, but as jennycraig points out, without seeing the letters themselves, it is hard to judge. I work in the legal industry, and as we would say: the documents speak for themselves. We need to see the letter to be having a better discussion.</p>
<p>baseballmom:</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you can't bear to read someone else's opinion without attacking, go to another board.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I feel a bit of sympathy for allidoiswait at the moment. How has she (umm or maybe...he? :P sorry) been attacking you? </p>
<p>On the other hand: "Posters who are rude and obnoxious and habitually insult others wind up banned..." Habitually insulting? Obnoxious? Okay...</p>
<p>goaliedad:</p>
<p>Now that's an interesting take on it that I hadn't come up with on my own. </p>
<p>And I wholeheartedly approve of the phone call concept. I received an admissions-related phone call from one school in my whole educational career, and it made a deep impression on me. It would be an excellent way for them to ensure kids keep a spot on their waiting list!</p>
<p>I wish I had gotten the top 25 waitlist letter, but whatever... What Andover is doing is a bit misleading!</p>
<p>I agree with goaliedad that it was poorly thought out -- and the idea lacked an awareness of the Internet. But even one person, without aid of the Internet, realized that Andover was playing games when she saw 3 of her applicants get the same letter. And, I agree with BrooklynGuy that the phone calls wouldn't be a satisfactory alternative if the purpose is to convey the same "top 25" message but without the paper trail.</p>
<p>This "25" number is intentionally vague in its meaning while being specific enough to seem like there's some objectivity involved. It's a Madison Avenue move...meant to keep kids' hopes high and string them along for as long as possible for the benefit of the Admission Office.</p>
<p>It was suggested to me that maybe I should take more of a "glass half full" view of this -- in that revealing a "top 25" status to a wait-listed candidate is better than keeping everyone in the dark. At least here there are some kids who have a better understanding of their prospects. I "get it" on a rational basis, but I'm remaining a staunch pessimist on this matter. From what I'm reading here, this "top 25" is a very fluid and dynamic list. And that's what I assume it would be absent an express commitment from Andover that it was a rigid list that would be drawn down in order.</p>
<p>The problem is not that they are ranking or that they are revealing wait list possibilities. It's that they are pretending to do so...and then doing it only to the extent that it works to their benefit. </p>
<p>Andover chose to open up the Pandora's Box of wait list ranking and they think that they're going to be able to spread around some HOPE and close it up before anything else gets out. If they're going to do this, the answer is to go all out -- or don't do it at all. If they're going to tell some people they're in the top 25, they should tell others that they're in the second 25 and the third 25 and so on. They don't do that because that would give those other people a dose of reality -- which is NOT their intention. By only divulging this amorphous ranking status to a few waitlisted applicants, it's plain that they want to spread hope, not reality. I've got a problem with that.</p>
<p>I made my original post on this topic when there was no indication as to what school this was, so it's free from that sort of bias. In fact, I wondered to myself as I wrote it whether I'd want to delete it if I later learned it involved a school that was near and dear to me...and I decided that it was a slimy move that needs to be called out ESPECIALLY if it was going on at, say, my alma mater or my son's school or some other school I take a shining to.</p>
<p>Now, I don't think that there's any intention on anyone's part to screw with kids' heads or get them to make bad choices regarding their educational futures. I just think that the Admission Office figured it had found a clever way to cover themselves if they didn't get the yield numbers right. And in their zeal to do what was best for themselves and the school, they forgot to think about the kids...especially since the only ones who'd get screwed over would be the ones they'd never have to deal with again.</p>
<p>If the reports of this letter are for real and it did come from Andover, then a visit to the Andover woodshed is definitely in order.</p>
<p>goal
I think you are being too sensitive. My take - and what my Dad told me after talking with them - was that 25 is the number they like to have "available". If you don't want to wait for the chance, go elsewhere. If you do, stay on the list. They state that those on the "25" are not ranked, when they need someone, they then go through those and pick their best.
I don't think that is being misleading to me. I now have to decide to wait or go or sacrifice my deposit somewhere else. By knowing where I am, my decision is easier.</p>
<p>ps
Life does go on. Whether I go to Andover or Yuma High, my life is what I make it. Perhaps I will have more choices at Andover, perhaps I would be 200th in my class there and 1st at Yuma High giving me a better College chance from Yuma.
I will stay on the waitlist from Andover and Thatcher - or go to Yuma High. I am me. I am Biggest Foot! My GGGGrandfather was Geronimo. My Destiny is set.</p>
<p>BiggestFoot -- That explanation would make sense if there was a letter telling all the other applicants that they're NOT in the top 25. They're choosing to share some information with some people (and just what that information is...well, even that's subject to debate) and they're choosing to keep the rest in the dark. </p>
<p>They're not helping the applicants make better, more informed decisions.</p>
<p>It's not about andover waitlist. I got rejected from my safety school. In november when my ssat score came out, they send me a letter said " with the excellent ssat results indicate that you are certainly an able student who has the potential to do well at the (school)....." I got acceptance from my target and reach schools, but rejected from safety school ! My friends said maybe they knew they are safety school, they thought anyway I will not attend.
If it's true, why they can't put me on waiting list ?</p>
<p>Dyer
The problem is that tomorrow the person on the regular list may get a letter that they are on the top 25. It is still to that person's advantage to stay on the list. This is no differant from one that ranks their waiting list and does not tell you whether you are 1st or 30th. Andover ranks the second list but not the 25. If you are in the top 25 it is more fair for you. If you are in the "others", it is no different from any other school's "wait list"</p>
<p>Sorry, but they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. They need to just tell everyone that they're wait listed or tell everyone where they're ranked on the waitlist (even if it's in groups of 25 and not an individual ranking).</p>
<p>You point out one of the foulest parts of this scam. A person in the "top 25" could, in theory, be passed over by 50 other applicants. You're saying that each time someone gets admitted from the "wait list," Andover will add someone else to the "Top 25" -- who would then be just as likely as the other members of that "elite" group. So, as you make the point that people BELOW the "Top 25" should still harbor false hope of admission, you're underscoring the point that being in the "Top 25" is totally meaningless (to the applicants who are on it, even though they're being told that there's something significant to that fact that may be worth acting on).</p>
<p>Your attitude is great, BiggestFoot, because you're not obsessing over this and will be satisfied with the outcome no matter how the chips fall. But what of the kid who has an acceptance in hand and has to give another school a decision? Suppose that person decides that they'll take a chance on Andover and use their public school as a back-up plan...giving up the proverbial bird in the hand? What if Thacher admits you off the wait list...and you're thinking that Andover has you on the "Top 25" but your time to reply to Thacher is going to run out. Some people are making big decisions based on this non-information information that Andover is sharing selectively with a handful of applicants.</p>
<p>Dyer
Seems to me you are having too much heart burn on your child's decision. For my money (and as I am involved, not my child) - it seems very fair to me. I have turned down "bird in hand" for possibility of thatcher or andover - with my large public high school as fall back. And, my large public high school gets as many into ivy league colleges as andover or thatcher (it is about 10 times as big).
why else did I turn down - because i get FA at Andover or thatcher if accepted (and due to distance from home). I have two brothers who did BS and 1 B and 1 S who did public and three went to Harvard and 1 Yale. Life does go on.</p>
<p>My child waitlisted and will stay on the list. The letter "supplement" said ..." There are approximately 25 students on the waiting list for each grade. The number constantly changes during the spring and summer as some students decide not to remain on the waiting lit and late applicants are adde to the list." I typed that out word-for-word. I assumed this was the standard repley until I started reading this thread. I can tell you this: Exeter waitlist letter was broad,... stating no numbers on list.</p>
<p>Bibdad, thank you for typing that out verbatim. We may be chasing ghosts here.</p>
<p>my pleasure, Peiwinkle. I never cared for ghosts.</p>
<p>Bib, peri
I agree (I think) with you. I think it is better to know whether you are in the top 25 or not than just somewhere on a vast waiting list like the other schools do. I have heard that some of them (exeter, sps, deerfield) write handwritten notes on the WA letters for those at the top - a friend applying for exeter got one that said he was at the top.</p>
<p>Ruh-roh. </p>
<p>After all that ghost-chasing, I agree with Periwinkle and can use a Scooby snack right about now.</p>
<p>That verbatim response paints a much different picture of what Andover is doing. In fact, it now appears that they are doing what I was appalled at them for not doing. It still has some ambiguity built-in, but here's what I interpret it to mean.</p>
<p>1) Initially (as of March 10), there are 25, and only 25, unranked people on the wait list for each grade. If you're on the wait list at this juncture, you're one of 25.</p>
<p>2) That number may decrease if people are accepted off the wait list or people commit to other education options over time.</p>
<p>3) That number may increase through applicants who apply late and are regarded as being "Andover-worthy" -- not through taking people from a "second tier" of wait listed applicants.</p>
<p>If that's true, that's far different from what I was addressing/attacking. It is the glass half full I had resisted because it now seems that everyone on the wait list knows that they're in a pool of (about) 25. I had been under the impression that there was a "top 25" to a wait list plus another, larger pool of applicants who were below that "top 25." This letter doesn't speak of a "top 25" at all. It speaks of there being 25 students PERIOD. Which, I suppose, is also a "top 25" (as much as it is a "bottom 25").</p>
<p>If that's correct, Andover is actually doing more than most schools by informing every applicant on the wait list how large the pool is and it discloses how they draw from that pool and how its size fluctuates...and could even increase.</p>
<p>Tail tucked in, I will eat some Scooby Snack Pie and ask my friends in the Mystery Machine to move on to other ghostly adventures....</p>
<p>They forget that the other applicants who are human beings and that some of them are on CC finding out that they got an "ordinary" or perhaps I should call it a "courtesy" waitlist letter. And perhaps one (or more) of these "courtesy" waitlist letters went to a regular donating alum's kid who just happens to be reading this thread?</p>
<p>I share this without any rancor, upset or regret. Andover made the right decision, and D is going somewhere else and will be very happy doing so. </p>
<p>D received what I would call one of the 'courtesy' waitlist letters. No supplemental information. D's application was the subject of a call or flag from an influential Andover person. I believe that D received the courtesy version in order to mollify the influential Andover person, and that without that person's flag on D's application she would have been rejected outright. Said influential Andover person, when informed of the waitlist status, essentially said of COURSE D should remain on the waitlist, after all, I flagged D's application. It was nice of said influential Andover person to try, but it may be hard for said influential Andover person to accept that an undeserving applicant does not become deserving with his/her flag. So the waitlist status makes that less jarring to that person.</p>
<p>Dyer, I'm sure you are aware that many kids apparently received a waitlist letter that did not include the, i'll call it "FYI" attachment that states the 25 only per class note. Along the lines of what laxi taxi said, there are kids receiving waitlist letters without the FYI attachment. So go back to your former rant which is actually justified (according to the current "what's fair" rules). These second tier kids are being led to believe that they are just in one large pool because they have not received the attachment. That being said, all of this being said, I do not for one minute think that the holy people or masons or secret society of andover admissions people would hesitate to go beyond the 25 and seek an underwater basson player from the other non-FYI list. It is such a freakin' crap shoot overall, really. It's enough to make anyone throw in the towel and say, who needs this. By the way, Lawrenceville does the same thing and so do all the other schools who write private notes to top applicants on the letters. If you want to be in the game, you have to accept it by their rules, which includes their choice of no rules at all. That goes double for the need blind admission baloney - its just not possible to have need blind admissions. They have to justify what they are getting for their dollar when they grant aid.</p>