<p>"But for example, If I am NASA and I am looking for a Physicist, a Ph.D from MIT would involve more advanced research then most state university and be more impressive."</p>
<p>If im not mistakin arent we talking mostly about undergrad education. You can look at any top grad school and find many students from schools with little to relatively no prestige. Just a few weeks ago i was looking at NYUs top ranked philosophy grad program. I saw students that got their undergrad degrees at places such as western kentucky, and realetivily few from ivy league schools. Grad schools like their diversity too. Often it seems that students that enjoy themselves in college and graduate with a less prestigious degree, but a better GPA and less debt end up in the same places as princeton grads, if not better places.</p>
<p>lazydog has it exactly right. I'm talking about undergrad. These days, it seems that undergrad is just an extension of high school education. It's general and broad. I believe that I can get a great undergrad education almost anywhere University. </p>
<p>Also, responding to previous posters, I know there are people who will find a small LAC or an Ivy to be a perfect match. I feel like a lot of people get caught up in numbers and stats. I know I did in high school. You've done hard work. You deserve a high ranking school, right? It's easy to overlook lower ranked schools, even when they might be a better match. </p>
<p>Also I don't believe that undergrad should be only about getting a degree that will get you job. I mean, that is part of it, but if I'm going to put 4 years of my life towards something, I'm not going to go through 4 years of misery on the off chance that name recognition of the prestigious school I graduated from will get me a job. Frankly, if someone is going to look down of me because of where my degree is from rather than what I have done, I don't want their job. I'm a whole person. I'm not just a degree from X university. </p>
<p>Thanks for the support everyone. I'm just so proud of my school. I've been seeing freshman around doing orientation. I'm so excited for them. I'm so happy that I found this place...it feels like a dirty secret, actually, when I look at some of my friends from my old LAC struggling to get through their last year.</p>
<p>^^ you're misinterpreting their policies. They do not require students to take out loans; students may choose to take them out anyway, to replace work-study and such (or parents can take them out if they feel that the university is expecting them to pay too much). That's why the average indebtedness at graduation for Princeton is not 0.</p>
<p>Nightmarerec0n, in general, in order to get out of college without debt, one must either qualify for financial aid or pay full fare. In other words, one's family income and assets must fall within the guidelines that the school sets for need based financial aid (which usually includes loans by the way) or the family income must be high enough to pay the $45,000-$50,000/yr. Families with income and assets that fall outside of this bracket must make college choices based on what works for them financially. They must choose to either go into debt with loans for an Ivy education or send their "as academically qualified" children to colleges with a lower price tag and/or where they meet the criteria for merit aid. I hope you realize that Ivy's do not give Merit Aid. You have dreams that an Ivy or top 20 school is going to guarantee success. As I said, you are understandably looking at the world through the eyes of a college bound high school student. That's OK because you haven't had the life experience yet to see things differently. There are many paths to success.</p>
<p>I know someone working at each of those companies, with the exception of Oracle, who went to Spelman (second tier) and Morehouse (third tier). Actually, a guy I dated at Morehouse was working at Lockheed before he even graduated. and ALL of those companies plus some recruited HEAVILY on my undergrad campus and Morehouse.</p>
<p>Also, the undergrad prestige of a schools has NOTHING to do with the prestige of its grad programs. In the case of MIT, of course that's the case, but there are many many public universities that have top-ranked Ph.D programs ranked even higher than Ivy programs.</p>
<p>It really should be about finding a place where you think you'll thrive for four years. My friend turned down both Stanford and Yale, two excellent universities, for the local state university, the University of Washington, because he is confident that he'd rather stay in Seattle, and while some people don't understand why he'd do such a thing, I think it was a good decision.</p>
<p>This is an excellent post/topic.
I know several people who went to Harvard. Half of them liked it, and half of them really did not. I know someone who transferred from Harvard (because she really did not like it there) to Kenyon College and absolutely loved it.</p>
<p>Prestige isn't often all it's cracked up to be. Prestigious schools can translate into huge class sizes, not much advising, not much focus on undergraduates, too much of a workload, etc. (that's of course not true in many cases and varies from school to school and person to person but it definitely does happen). Choose a school that you love and that fits you. Not what looks best on paper or which has the best reputation. Going to a state school does not somehow ruin your chance at life. If you work hard and do what you care about, you'll go far no matter where you are or what you do. But it helps if where you are fits you.</p>
<p>to NightmareCon's question, why is SJS never ranked? I think SJS refused to be in the US news because it jacks up students and parents thinking that getting a good education in America is all about the ranking numbers and not whether the college is a good fit for the student. At least that's what Reed College believes.</p>
<p>But SJS is a Cal public University, why would some be ranked and some not?</p>
<p>I imagine silicon valley companies try to sink a huge amount of money into to be CompSci or Engineering "breeding grounds"
Look at UW, Without companies like Microsoft and Boeing sinking in millions and millions of dollars, I doubt it would be as good.</p>
<p>^^ US News ranks in its "national university" list those schools whose highest degree is a PhD (I think that's the main criterion); SJSU would be a master's university. It's public, yes, but it's part of the California State University system, not the University of California system.</p>
<p>Also I may be laughed at for this, but here it goes.</p>
<p>Why do higher concentrations of "sucessful" people go to good universities?
I mean look at U.S Presidents, MOST went to top universities or LACs with the exception of extremely high ranking military officers.
Five U.S Presidents went to Harvard.</p>
<p>Most of your top scientists went to top schools... Same with doctors and lawyers.</p>
<p>Most of your extremely successful businessmen or Ibankers went or dropped out of top schools</p>
<p>I like to debate....Someone please refute my argument.</p>
<p>^^ The presidential nominee/elect is correlated to how wealthy the candidate is. Sure, anybody can run for president, but you have to have significant time and resources (i.e. money and more money) to win.</p>
<p>Historically, Harvard and other elites were schools for specifically a white and wealthy clientele. So the connection here is not that the candidates were all super-brilliant that they all went to top schools, but that they all had the money to do so.</p>
<p>"Top scientists," "top doctors," and "top lawyers" are vague terms, not limited and quantifiable (like the set of U.S. Presidents). Unless you want to use a specific way to measure Top-ness (say, Who's Who), I imagine that this assertion, posed as fact, is speculation and hasn't been tested yet.</p>
<p>I never paid much attention to the data surrounding "top businessmen" (i.e. CEO's of Forbes 500) but I remember that many CEO's were from state schools.</p>
<p>"I never paid much attention to the data surrounding "top businessmen" (i.e. CEO's of Forbes 500) but I remember that many CEO's were from state schools."</p>
<p>Yep, you're right.</p>
<p>University of Wisconsin-Madison is 2nd to Harvard for producing the most CEOs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Look at UW, Without companies like Microsoft and Boeing sinking in millions and millions of dollars, I doubt it would be as good.
[/quote]
Microsft Corporation didn't sink millions and millions of dollars to make UDub a "CompSci or Engineering bleeding grounds". In fact, Microsoft hires the most CompSci grads from the University of Illinois.</p>
<p>I don't recall Microsoft as a corporation being a major donor for UDub. The Gates Family, however, has donated millions and millions of dollars. There's Mary Gates Hall (Undergrad Admin), William H. Gates Bldg (Law School; 2003), and the Mary Gates Memorial Drive... And there is the Paul Allen Center for CompSci & Engineering (2003) but that's from his own money.</p>
<p>You see, even Big State U's have billionnaire alum and friends too.</p>
<p>“Harvard and Wisconsin Tie in Turning Out the Most CEOs in U.S.”
That was the headline in the September 2004 issue of Bloomberg Markets magazine. The article showed the University of Wisconsin tied with Harvard for educating the most CEOs of S&P 500 companies.</p>