<p>JustaGuy,
I really enjoyed your post and wish that many northerners (read: Ivy and NE LAC-focused individuals) would read it and learn a bit more about the many fine (and fun) colleges in the South. My sense is that the more folks look into colleges like Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, etc, the more they will like them and appreciate them for the great undergraduate experiences they provide and how they compare favorably with many of their better-known northern competitors. </p>
<p>One point that caught my eye was the percentages coming from different regions to different schools. I did some work on this a while back and learned that many schools define regions differently and report their students’ origins differently. As a result, certain student body tendencies get misunderstood. For example, I would guess that most folks would assume that Cornell is more regionally diverse than Emory, but it’s not. Or that U Penn’s US students are more geographically diversified than Vanderbilt, but they’re not. The point is that stereotypes exist and that, in many cases, these perspectives are outdated.</p>
<p>I’m having a bit of trouble with this concept of mapping southern schools onto northern (northeastern) schools. I realize it was just for entertainment, so take this comment in the same vein, please. For instance, Vanderbilt and Dartmouth: one sits smack in the middle of a vibrant city (urban campus) and the other is pretty isolated. The relationship between Vanderbilt and the city of Nashville is not an incidental one; in my opinion, a large part of the changing personality of Vanderbilt is due to the interaction with the community. There are many programs designed to get students involved with the city, and a lot of pride on the part of Nashville residents that Vanderbilt is part of their city. I guess my point is that, in this case, the very different type of location is significant, and I’m sure that is the case for some of the other match-ups, as well.</p>
<p>Ummmm, yo, Southerners! I was enjoying this thread a lot. But then, reading in that other thread about the resignation of William & Mary’s president reminded me why none of my kids had any great inclination to look at colleges in the South.</p>
<p>My parents spent quite a few years in Lexington VA. I really don’t think I could live in a place where the first question a person asks you is, “What church do you belong to?” Mind you my parents enjoyed their time there, though they are back in Yankee territory now.</p>
<p>My D went from the midwest to the south this year for school. It definitely is different than the midwest, and some things are a bit troublesome for her … but she would rather be a bit troubled by people’s beliefs than never be exposed to anything different than what she knows. As college should be, it is a learning experience. She has found that there are people she agrees with & people she disagrees with … people she likes & people with whom she has little in common … just as she would find at any school anywhere. While she REALLY has trouble with the way people drive around her school, she can put up with it … the beautiful weather keeps her spirits up!</p>
<p>mathmom, the question of which church I attend was, quite literally, the first question I was asked by many people when I moved to this midwestern college town. It isn’t just the south.</p>
<p>However, the answer “none” has almost always been taken in stride, and seems not to be so important after the first few minutes.</p>
<p>JHS,
I think the difference you are seeing is not the difference between Northern and Southern, but between public (state supported) vs. private elite.
I have some experience with both. I am a proud graduate of the University of Florida and got further degrees and now work at The University of Chicago. My son went to Dartmouth and my daughter is a first year at Princeton.
IMO, there is a clash between elite values and what the public is willing to pay for. To expect the man in the street to want to pay for the W&M stuff is unrealistic- and, yes, elitist.</p>
<p>danas – good point, but not exactly true. This question came up in New York and one conservative Regent complained that one of the schools had a masturbation (can I say that?) workshop, or some such, as well as a program like they had at William and Mary and was not supported by the rest of the Board of Regents. Maybe Regents didn’t like it, but no heads rolled and no directives were issued.</p>
<p>And our prez at LI Community College always stands up for us against our own board and community. (Board has numerous religious leaders.) </p>
<p>So publics can be outspoken in defense of First Amendment.</p>
<p>midmo: I had trouble with that, too, and I really believe that such comparisons actually do a disservice to both sets of schools (southern and northern). </p>
<p>mathmom: I’m a southerner (and don’t attend church). For many southerners, though, I think the reason we might ask that question to someone who just moved from another area, is because church is so social for southerners. (That may be true for northerners, too-- I don’t know.) So, most probably aren’t asking for conversion reasons, or to be nosy, but more as a way to reach out and invite you to come to their church, meet all their friends-- a kind of introduction to their community (less about religion). At least, that’s the way it was in the past. I think people are so sensitive about religion now, and anything connected to it, that they probably wouldn’t find that today (for better or worse).</p>
<p>I don’t think there is another public university I know of, under this guy, which was more discriminatory in favor of male applicants in admissions in the public university world. If I had a daughter in Virginia I would think of burning the fellow’s house down.
Or better yet, bringing the hammer down via my elected officials.</p>
<p>midmo,
Sorry if my comparisons didn’t work for you as no intention to offend as I know you are a proud Vanderbilt parent. I didn’t really like the Vanderbilt-Dartmouth analogy, but my reasoning was the schools both have a lot of clever students who like to have a good time and are generally fun people to be with. And both schools have active and highly visible Greek scenes. But yeah, the middle of nowhere for Dartmouth is a very different environment from Vanderbilt and its location in Nashville. For folks that don’t know it, I suspect that they would find out on a visit that Nashville is a very interesting place with a lot of different sides to it. By contrast, Hanover, NH is pretty darn small and completely dominated by Dartmouth. </p>
<p>Anyway, I was just trying to have a little fun with the North…South analogies. No intention beyond that. All of these schools, North and South, are pretty terrific places.</p>
<p>Cangel (and anyone else who can address this), I realize that sororities have a long tradition in the South. Are they still basically racially segregated? When we visited UVA, there were plenty of frat and sorority signs-- and one loudly proclaimed itself open to different races. I’m glad it is… but it implies that most aren’t.</p>
<p>Look at their chapter pages linked through the university website. That’s a good way to see a cross-section of membership. I can think of many kids from my D’s hs class of various ethnicities who pledged UVa GLOs.</p>
<p>Thanks. I’m going to sound dumb here, but what’s a GLO? (And I would have never thought their pages were linked through the university website! Thanks!)</p>
<p>hawkette, in no way I was offended! I just don’t see much similarity there. I’m all for getting students and parents to look at schools from a fresh vantage point.</p>
<p>I agree that the church question may be more social. And I know my southern sister-in-law who had a hard time when they settled in NH, now has millions of friends - most of them dating from when they joined a church. (Though I think kids in schools helps too.) That said, I do think there is a much larger contigent of people who don’t attend religious institutions, and no expectation around here that it will be a church. Here I mostly notice friendship circles that center on the Catholic church and others that center on the various Temples. A Virginia friend of mine joked that it was funny to feel like a minority as a WASP.</p>
<p>But back to the southern college discussion… to which I can’t add much.</p>
<p>That is exactly correct, and is another thing that a northerner from a secular background should recognize - you will meet some very committed evangelical Christians, but the real religious difference in the South and most of the North is that a significant percentage of the upper middle class population identifies as Protestant, and a good proportion of them go to church regularly because it is a big part of social and community life. They aren’t trying to convert you as much as they are trying to plug you into the proper social network. It would be bad manners to proselytize too much, especially with a new acquaintance!</p>
<p>I think the deep South GLOs are still pretty much segregated, and I’m fairly sure there is some racism involved, but the issue is more complex than just racism. The Greeks have major political power on campus, and the African-American frats and sororities are historically strong with deep roots and traditions - there are a lot of good reasons for a young AA student at Alabama or Ga to join an AA org rather than a traditionally white organization. Motherdear is right, the way to know is to look at the pictures. I do know that Jewish students are welcome, based on the experiences of some of my kids’ acquaintances.</p>
<p>Oh and I always throw this into a discussion of Southern schools.
Years ago (not so many, unfortunately) when anti-semitism was prevalent, Southern Jewish families tended to send their kids to a couple of private unis - Tulane and Emory in particular, as well as wash U. There are a lot of old wealthy Southern Jewish families - remember “Driving Miss Daisy”? - and they faced discrimination in the state unis and they wanted their children to meet other Jewish kids. Thankfully the discrim has waned, but those schools in particular maintain larger, more vibrant Jewish populations of students. Just another piece for those who are truly unfamiliar with the South.</p>