<p>I generally like to recommend the ACT, but I'll go with the crowd here - retake the SAT - he might have to "re-study" too much for the ACT, easier to prep for the SAT, and if they look at best sitting, he can only improve.</p>
<p>Can't speak to Williams or Amherst, we didn't get that far, but Dartmouth was very numbers driven last year, especially in the ED round for the kids posting on this board (I suspect they were snapping up high stat kids who had essentially demonstrated their commitment to Dart by applying ED). If they do indeed only look at CR and math this year, he will drop below 1500, which was almost a magic number last year.</p>
<p>If he is giving you a hard time about retaking - don't feel badly, my daughter would have - have him read this thread, or search the accepted students threads on each of his top picks from last year - those threads list student after student, and what they say their stats were, he may rapidly see a pattern.</p>
<p>If the math score goes up and you decide to send them again, perhaps there needs to be some other alert to the admissions office to check the latest score report (eg. a letter indicating the updated report), so that they don't miss that new math score. I'm not sure about this...what do others think?</p>
<p>I don't think he should repeat them. Why not have the confidence to say "I had a great day, I'm done" instead of appearing obsessive about scores? (Disclosure: both of my kids took the SAT only once.)</p>
<p>It seems to me that there is virtually no "cost" to taking the SAT I again, but if he goes into it with an attitude he may not do any better.</p>
<p>If this were my kid, I wouldn't press him to take it again especially given that he's got plenty of proof of his math aptitude. Adcoms will definitely notice the IIc and AP scores.</p>
<p>I'm with Mackinaw and DMD on this. I think it is obsessive and somewhat disturbed to push a kid with these scores to retake. He's demonstrated his math ability with two tests geared to much higher math ability -- the college admissions decision is not going to be based on that. His time would be better spent on just about anything else.</p>
<p>Calmom: your not wrong that it is kind of obsessive to retake the test (tho I wouldn't call it disturbed,). The issue is, that to play the admissions game for the elites this student desires (whether you agree they're desireable or not), one has to be kind of obsessive if you don't have a major hook. These schools have reasons of their own why they want certain totals above 1500 (their rankings, etc.--see posts #6 and 21 above), so regardless of the scores on the other tests (which are exceptional, and clearly demonstrate the math ability in question), it would be in this student's best interests to try to get in that ball park, especially since it seems it will not be difficult for him at all. So, it really all depends on how badly he wants those schools, but if he does, unfortunately, obsessive=realistic.</p>
<p>I'm sorry about the word "disturbed" - I meant to write "disturbing" but now its too late for me to edit. </p>
<p>I think that when a student has SAT scores in the range that the OP's son has, the colleges are not looking at the scores any more -- the kid has already passed that hurdle. They are looking at the whole package.</p>
<p>In any case, the kid does not want to take the test, and the kid should be in control of the process. At this point this seems to be a parent-driven obsession -- and that's actually the part that disturbs me.</p>
<p>I agree with calmom and dmd. Why retake with such overall high scores? The schools he is considering require SAT IIs and he has very high scores on those tests. Up until this testing season most of them required that students take the SAT II Writing section which has now moved over to the SAT I. He did quite well on that section.</p>
<p>What I would do is go to the Academic Index calculator and see where he comes out. I would do this myself but the OP does not list where in his class the student falls. Further, the OP said that the student was an athlete. Perhaps not a recruited athlete but perhaps enough for them to see that he is well rounded in that direction.</p>
<p>Almost all of the applications to competitive schools that I have seen (except ND) have a place to report AP scores. If he has taken Calc AB by the end of his junior year I suspect that he may have taken a number of AP tests. If his scores are similar on the other AP tests I believe he should be fine.</p>
<p>I would focus on the applications instead. Take the 4 hour test time to write and redraft an essay or 2.</p>
<p>I have always read and heard that strong writing and CR scores are much more impressive to admissions committees than high math scores. Obviously, he is talented in all areas as evidenced by his SAT II
and AP scores. My daughter's SAT I (old version) scores were very similar. She aced the verbal, yet the math was not up to par at all for her. However, she also made a 5 on the AP Calc exam and had other very strong AP and SAT II scores to back her. She did not let the lower math score on SAT I bother her at all, and it did not seem to hinder her admission into Duke. She did not want to risk lowering her verbal score with a retake even though she probably would have increased her math. </p>
<p>She would have totally rebelled had I forced the issue of a retake. Therefore, I decided to let her have the final say on this one. </p>
<p>I think Eagle79's suggestion to spend the time on applications is an excellent idea.</p>
<p>There seems to be no downside for the OP's son in retaking the SAT, and there are numerous anecdotes about kids with just one 600-range SAT who did not get into the schools you've mentioned (asuming unhooked); of course there are often myriad reasons for a waitlist letter instead of an acceptance, but in this instance, with no other exams pressuring him, it seems a relatively straightforward choice to give it another shot. As far as I know other most schools than Princeton are quite straightforward about taking the best scores in each area (Williams certainly makes this very clear on its admissions pages). One caveat--if the OP's son is a recruited athlete rather than "just" a high schol varsity athlete, I don't think he needs to retake the SAT; this isn't a knock at athletes just an acknowledgment that being recruited is a hook). He sounds like an impressive applicant no matter what but as other posters have noted, you just don't kow what effect that one aberrational math score will have. </p>
<p>Also, and this does not apply to the OP's son, who has stellar scores, it has occurred to me after reading a number of posts this summer that this trend toward kids (in parts of the country where the ACT has historically been ignored) taking the ACT after a disappointing performance on the SAT is going to be a fairly obvious tactic to admissions officers who presumably know an end run when they see it.</p>
<p>Mattmom - I hope that admissions officers don't see taking the ACT as an "end run", simply because it is a fact that given 2 kids of equal ability, one may do much better on one test than the other. I don't think it is an end run to more clearly demonstrate one's abilities.</p>
<p>I think that when a student has SAT scores in the range that the OP's son has, the colleges are not looking at the scores any more -- the kid has already passed that hurdle. They are looking at the whole package.<</p>
<p>The problem is that these are guesses and anecdotes. Statistically, this student would have a greater likelihood of admission to the elites with a math score more in line with the others. No one can be sure, but if the student wants to up his chances, and is as likely to be able to raise that score as he seems to be (with, it seems, a minimum of time and effort), then he absolutely should do so --if admission to such schools is very important TO HIM. His parent is right, IMO, to make sure he's thought this through carefully, encouraging him to consider other opinions (which it seems like that's what this thread was about), and then, of course, letting HIM make his own, very informed decision.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So a retake of the SAT I could essentially be a free option for a higher math score. If he does better, we can send on the scores, if not, the colleges will never see them. Does that make sense?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Since there is no longer a score choice options the colleges are going to see all of his scores. </p>
<p>Another vote for the retest because it really cannot hurt him. Many schools use the best score ( especially the 3 schools that he's considering). If he raises the math, he will definitely be in a better position. My daughter was in the same position had excellent verbals and a lopsided math. she retook and raised the math by 120 points and was accepted in to all 3 schools your son is considering (remember williams and amherst both only accept a little over 1000 students to fill a class of 550)</p>
<p>If your son is stubborn, rebellious or otherwise reluctant - let him be. But from your posting, I surmise that he is actually trying to figure out the best way to go about retaking, just his reasoning is different from yours... If that's true - show him this thread, show him other threads, - it seems that the collective wisdom of Collegeconfidential says "retake". </p>
<p>Especially in your win-win situation, when you can actually choose whether to submit the new scores... Well, there might be a couple of problems: universities (sometimes) do lose the scores sent early, so you may have to resubmit them... and there is a box on applications asking if a kid is registered for testing for some future date, so I don't know if it's possible to apply your benign chicanery in every case.</p>
<p>Oh, and my three kids also took SAT once (in high school) - but I still say "retake"</p>
<p>sybbie, the plan is to NOT send the new scores at all if the result is not good enough: it's possible because OP already sent the existing scores to all the universities.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Since there is no longer a score choice options the colleges are going to see all of his scores. >></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>This is true WHEN you are sending the scores. The OP has already sent scores to all of the prospective application schools. If the kiddo retakes and they do NOT send the new scores, the colleges will not see the updated score...in fact won't even know he retook the test. His other scores are already there.</p>
<p>Seems to me your HS's past record at these schools should give the answer... look at the data. If no kid from your HS ever gets in to his desired schools with a composite score similar to his, it seems obvious-- retake. Why risk a lenghty adcom discussion where someone has to pull out his SAT II scores, explain that the SAT math is easier than the SAT II, etc. if by retaking he can easily boost the score into the acceptability range. If kids from your school routinely get into these schools with those scores, than he's right-- don't worry about it.</p>
<p>I would agree with Xiggi that nobody is getting brownie points for only taking once, no matter how good it may make people feel. Unless your kid is first generation college and goes to a highly disadvantaged high school, or has other SES qualifiers that suggest a disadvantated background, you are being naive in assuming that "only took once" gets you a boost with the adcoms. A kid from a disadvantaged background who took once gets the benefit of the doubt (he had no prep classes, SAT's are highly correlated to income, etc.) Any other kid is going head to head with another kid with a similar profile.... except that pesky math score is 100 points higher. Seems like a no-brainer to me.</p>
<p>"This is true WHEN you are sending the scores. The OP has already sent scores to all of the prospective application schools. If the kiddo retakes and they do NOT send the new scores, the colleges will not see the updated score...in fact won't even know he retook the test. His other scores are already there."</p>
<p>Doesn't the Collegeboard send updated score reports to all previous recipients? It was my understanding that if more tests are taken after a report was sent to a college, another report which includes the new scores is automatically sent to that college?</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Doesn't the Collegeboard send updated score reports to all previous recipients?>></p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>nope. You have to designate the recipients of scores (I believe you get 4 freebies when you take the test), and then you get to pay for the rest.</p>
<p>mattmom.
I don't see the ACT as an end run at all. I am not referring to this case at all but for others who don't do well on the SAT. My S did great on his PSATs, 97% but then took the Princeton Review course and did only fair on his SATs low-mid 1300 took twice. He then took the ACT and did great. He only sent out ACT scores , did not use ACT at all and got in to all but 1 school. My D's friend at Brown had similar SAT scores to my S and a good ACT score. She however sent all her scores to Brown and got in ED. I am a firm believer of the ACT for those kids who do not do well on the SAT. Of course my D who also had low1300 SATs got a 29 on her ACT which is equivalent to only a 1300 SAT so it doesn't help everyone.</p>