<p>Again thanks for all the great advice. In answer to a couple of posts, we are not pushing our son to retake the SAT. We just want him to consider the pros and cons and make his own choice. If he does retake, he is paragmatic enough to prepare himself and will have a good attitude.</p>
<p>In answer to another post seeking more info, my son attends a small private school that does not rank the class. He has a 3.9 UW and 4.1 W gpa. Probably in top 10% or so of class. He has taken or will take eight AP classes. He will not be a recruited athlete, but runs cross country and track and was co-captain as a junior of the state championship team. </p>
<p>This entire thread will be incredibly useful for our son in making up his mind. Thanks.</p>
<p>Phil57 - he sounds like a good fit with a good chance at the schools you listed in the orig post. My DD had a similar profile (not such great SATIIs, though) and was accepted ED at Dartmouth - so you have a sample size of one to go on ;)!</p>
<p>Looking at the profiles of accepted students from his high school for the colleges of interest is a great idea if that info is available for his school - DD did not have that type of info.</p>
<p>Can you financially afford a simple compromise that will take away all of the pressure of re-taking the SAT for your son?</p>
<p>He is apparently worried that if he does worse on the two verbal sections that it will cheapen his 800's. As many others have indicated, this may indeed be false. Nevertheless, if your son believes this to be the case it may still cause him to be more nervous than he needs to be. Here is a ZERO RISK procedure you could use.</p>
<p>(1) Send all of his SAT scores to all of the colleges he is applying to.
(2) Verify that all colleges have received his scores.
(3) Have him re-take the SAT-I.
(4) Only if he is extremely happy with his new scores do you re-send them.</p>
<p>This strategy relieves all of the pressure, because he can ONLY GAIN from re-taking the test. For example, if he gets 780/780/780, he can re-send the scores. If he gets 670/670/670, he can throw the new score report in the trash and he will be the only one who knows. This might cost about $100 or so (depending on how many colleges he is applying to). I used this for my son. Fortunately, I think he did well and we sent the new scores, but I would not have felt badly if he had a lousy day and we refrained from sending the scores.</p>
<p>Some may say this is unfair, in that you can afford to do this when others may not be able to. In my opinion, if your son's math score increases significantly, then even if you are poor it may be worth him getting a job to earn the extra $100.</p>
<p>For those of you who provided advice, thanks. My son came back from a trip, read a printout of this thread and quickly concluded that he would retake the SAT.</p>
<p>I don't know about everyone else's kid, but when push comes to shove, my D will always opt for the path of least resistance. I sometimes wonder if she would have even taken the SATs and ACT if I hadn't prodded her.</p>
<p>I don't know about everyone else's kid, but when push comes to shove, my D will always opt for the path of least resistance..>></p>
<p>I hear you Wishing. I feel the same way at times about my daughter. A few times I have also printed out things from CC and that's swayed her much more than what dear old mom has to say. :)</p>
<p>Phil, good luck to your son --- come back and let us know how he does!</p>
<p>Your son should only retake the SAT if BOTH of the following are true:
1. He's confident of scoring at least in the upper 700s on the V and CR parts of the SAT.
2. He has a strong chance of scoring in the upper 700s on the math section.</p>
<p>If your son had scored lower on the V and CR sections, then the case for retaking the test would be much stronger, since there would be more possibility of increasing those scores as well and less chance of lower scores. But I don't think he should retake the SAT unless he's confident of scoring in the upper 700s. There's no point in going to all that trouble of retaking the exam for just a modest score improvement.</p>
<p>The SAT I math is different from SAT II math and AP Calculus. For the latter two, it's a matter of knowing his stuff. But on the SAT 1, your son has to be James Bond armed with a #2 pencil. Advanced math knowledge is irrelevant - it's all about blazing through the exam with lightning speed while bypassing the ETS traps and avoiding careless mistakes.</p>
<p>When S1 was applying to colleges, his GC emphasized the psychological importance of scoring 700+ as opposed to high 600s, even though statistically, there is no real difference. Since Phil57's S scored 670 on the SAT-M, but far higher in the SAT-V and SAT-IIs, it is advantageous for him to retake and crack 700; he does not need to score in the high 700s. But that 670M sticks out like a sore thumb.</p>
<p>< When S1 was applying to colleges, his GC emphasized the psychological importance of scoring 700+ as opposed to high 600s, even though statistically, there is no real difference. Since Phil57's S scored in the 600s on one section, but far higher in others, it is advantageous for him to retake and crack 700; he does not need to score in the high 700s. But that 670M sticks out like a sore thumb. >
True, but there is a certain amount of luck involved. If you expect to score 720 but fall 30 points short, that's a 690. If you expect to score 800 but fall 30 points short, that's still a 770. The reason for the "upper 700s" threshold for deciding whether or not to retake is to have a margin of safety built-in in case the score falls a bit short of expectations.</p>
<p>I vote retake; taking it twice is probably most typical, anyway. Remember that top schools see many strong applicants, more than you can believe, and when they are trying to decide among the many very strong potential academic admits they might take, they are kind of looking for a reason to deny. Why give them a reason? I'm not saying Williams won't take him as is, they might well; but why give a reason to deny for something that can be remedied with a few hours work?</p>
<p>I think the GC may be correct about the psychological effect that cracking 700 may have on admissions officers. It is one of the reasons I like the ACT, the composite is really an average. This student would probably get a 34 average and be done instead of having to take the test again. Though I still think that there are enough other things in the app to outweigh the 670.</p>
<p>If the scores had been more evenly distributed, I might not have suggested retaking. But it is obvious that the student is very highly capable and there is really no downside to retaking. He can only bring his score up, he can not diminish the scores he already has.
As for the ACT, I am of two minds. There are different ways of getting the same composite score. For a tech school, it might be worth breaking down the different components of the composite score if the important ones, namely math & science, are substantially higher than the ones that will carry less weight at such a school.</p>
<p>Just jumping on the retake bandwagon. My son's scores were 790V 670M and 780Writing (SAT II) last year, and I suspect that it was the math that got him wl'd at Carleton. As long as Phil's son is not completely sick of standardized tests, I am glad he is going for the retake, and wish him the best.</p>
<p>one other thing that is important to note is that both Dart (and Williams?) have more apps from males than females (unlike 90% of other colleges). Thus, the OP's xy demographic is a negative as The College attempts to balance the sexes in this app pool. ANYTHING that can help differentiate the chromosonal xy's should be pursued, IMO. It's just human nature to to an adcom to not want to have to explain why s/he wants to lower their median scores by accepting an lower scoring, unhooked kid. Yes, the SAT 2 and Calc grades will help mitigate a lower SAT 1, but the simple fact remains that their SAT 1 scores are posted for all the world to see.... </p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>full disclosure: having the exact same discussion with my S (high, but below average CR) and I just receive :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Perhaps it may depend upon what the student checks off for thier intended major, i.e. if the students says Math and their low score is in math they may get WL or rejected. Just wondering if some of the advice everyone is giving would be the same if the situation was slightly different.</p>
<p>Let me provide a sample example: Assume a student is very interested in math and science and they had SAT scores of 690 CR, 770W, 790M along with Math and Physics SAT IIs of 790+. Do you think they should retake to apply to MIT for math or science?</p>
<p>No, there would be no real reason for retaking. Despite what my S's GC said about the pyschological edge of 700+, 690 is no different. But 670 is borderline. So the advice could go either way. The bigger point, though, is, that save for a few hours devoted to prepping and taking the test, there is no downside to retaking. You don't get brownie points for taking the test only once. If, however, a student has all 800s except for a 770, I would advise agaisnt retaking. It makes you look obsessive.</p>