<p>Posted in Bowdoin plus other school threads...suggested I pursue here as well...any insight is greatly welcomed!!!</p>
<p>"Parent of son who's passion is MUSIC -- popular/jazz/electronic composition, recording, performing. Plays sax, guitar, piano, etc., plus vocal. At Lawrenceville School, jazz ensemble lead sax and guitar, lead baritone in vocal group Laurentians. He is and would be a regular at the local Coffeehouse, etc. Plays in bands/ensembles and has numerous original compositions/recordings ranging from acoustic pop to hard rock electric, jazz and electronic (think Trent Reznor!!) on net.) This past year, he discovered musical theater, too!! Academically, VERY strong...you get the idea. I rally think liberal arts makes sense with a music concentration vs. a conservatory (he visited Juilliard and pursued a more academic route...)</p>
<p>Waitlist Columbia (#1 choice) and accepted Bowdoin, Wesleyan, Oberlin, JHU, NYU Honors, and Rochester...</p>
<p>He visited Bowdoin and really liked it, recognizes strength of academics, loves the house system (similar to Lawrenceville) but it appears his concern is the perceived weak Bowdoin music program...</p>
<p>Can anyone weigh in on Bowdoin music vs. say Wesleyan, Oberlin, JHU?</p>
<p>More importantly to a parent, can anyone provide insight as to how important the music program is to the "quality" of the overall liberal arts academics??</p>
<p>I don’t know a thing about Bowdoin music but, with Peabody at JMU, Eastman at U-Rochester, and Oberlin being Oberlin, it’s pretty hard to imagine it could measure up.</p>
<p>Oberlin or Wesleyan? Bowdoin music is a joke by comparison, and JHU would not be much better unless he was in Peabody too. Oberlin would be music heaven for him. He should visit.</p>
<p>Look carefully at what the music major is at each place, and how difficult it is to double major. For example, my recollection is that at JHU there isn’t a BA music major, but only a BM in Peabody–which means most of the courses are in music. I think it’s the same at some of the others. It was our impression that going for a BM was not really a broad liberal arts education, because the bulk of classes were in music. You really have to think hard about what you want.</p>
<p>I think he would have the best music and educational environment at Oberlin. The Conservatory faculty do take on students from the College, and I believe College students are involved in the various ensembles. Given the proximity of the Con and the College all co-located, I think this would work well.</p>
<p>If you take a look at Oberlin’s website, you’ll see that if you want to major in music, you basically have to take a BM in the Conservatory. You can take a double degree with a BA in Arts and Sciences, but that takes 5 years. That’s a good option for some students, but it’s a very different animal from a BA in Music. Again, you really need to understand what the degree programs are at the various schools.</p>
<p>Interesting. Thanks, BassDad, for giving a better answer. If you just look at the website itself, it makes it look (at least to me) like the BA is something called “Musical Studies.” But it does raise a question that my son also considered, which is whether it’s a good thing to be a BA music major at a school which also has a conservatory with BM students. I think you have to ask some questions to find that out.</p>
<p>I have an acquaintance who had a son transfer to Oberlin for Organ performance (can’t remember where from, but somewhere known for music) and he hasn’t looked back since. He absolutely LOVES the atmosphere there.</p>
<p>Thanks for great feedback thus far…love the BA music options (including TIMMRA), opportunity to be exposed to the conservatory…LOTS of options to explore!!! Should I as a parent be concerned that son may be missing out on “mini-Ivy” academics?</p>
<p>The academics at Oberlin are very strong. The music offerings are second to none. From your description of what he’s looking for, it’s an excellent choice.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Your son likes to dabble in many musical areas which is great, but probably doesn’t lend itself to even getting a BA in Music since he’ll have to concentrate on 1 area. Having him have to focus in one or two select areas may decrease his enjoyment, just food for thought.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, musically, Bowdoin isn’t up there with schools like Oberlin, but it seems that your son has been a “big fish” in his pond up to now. If he were to go to a school with attached conservatory, he’ll be pretty far down the food chain and things like coffee house gigs may be out of his reach. The local music scene at Bowdoin isn’t too bad and he’d stand a much better chance performing there than the other places. Bowdoin hosts a reasonable summer program and there are many other music-related goings on both on and off campus through the year. At a place with limited music students like Bowdoin, there would naturally be more opportunities. </p></li>
<li><p>As you’ve observed, the academics of the other schools on the list, save JHU and possibly NYU, aren’t up to par with Bowdoin (I can hear the Oberlin Mafia protesting, but it just isn’t so as Bowdoin is one of the most selective non-Ivy LAC around).</p></li>
<li><p>Also have to consider location. JHU and NYU are in real cities. Rochester is a “semi-city” and Bowdoin, Oberlin and Wesleyan are field trips to cities of decent size, with Bowdoin being sort of schizophrenic since Portland, which has some excellent music going on, is only 30 minutes away, but Boston is a good 2 hours distant.</p></li>
<li><p>Distance: On “the list” Bowdoin is the second furthest from home (400 miles), with Oberlin a bit further at 480 miles. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>So you have to ask yourselves “Why is he attending college?” If it’s to further his musical performance career then you’ll probably need to give the “not enrolling in a BM” strategy some serious rethinking. If it’s to get experience to provide him a non-music career, but in an environment where he can still participate and enjoy music, then you should let the primary decision maker be the support of his future career as long as there is some music available.</p>
<p>Good news is that “the list” consists of all excellent schools so you can’t make a bad choice. You’ve just got to use your own judgement and intuition to make the best all-around choice.</p>
<p>Just reporting my own personal possibly skewed opinion: academic rigor and strength (as opposed to selectivity, which is influenced by other factors such as geographic popularity, connections to influential alumni contacts in high-income fields, etc) IN MY EYES probably goes like this:</p>
<p>JHU, Oberlin, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, Rochester, NYU Honors</p>
<p>At the same time, I believe the differences between the schools are more significant along other axes than relative academic rigor. </p>
<p>Can’t he visit? It seems to me that spending four years at NYU versus four years at, say, Bowdoin would feel very different.</p>
<p>One of those axes along which I think the experience would be way different is richness of opportunity and quality of musical life. Along that axis, the ranking is
Oberlin…(gap)…NYU…gap…the rest.</p>
<p>Oberlin academics are easily on a par with Bowdoin - “selectivity” is not the measure of academic quality; Oberlin is in the midwest, not the NE, which accounts for a lot of the difference. The rate of PhD’s with BA’s from Oberlin way outdoes Bowdoin. There are lots of opportunities for non-connies to perform, including open mics at the Cat.</p>
<p>Thanks Zep and memake…some excellent thoughts. We’re visiting Wesleyan tomorrow (Wesfest) and JHU and Oberlin next weekend we think? Wow, what a journey!!!</p>
<p>…thanks everyone for chiming in, keep it coming, really appreciate it!!!</p>
<p>My S kind of in the same boat. Violinist, violist, pianist and dabbled in sax as well as an accomplished vocalist. He also composes very modern classical music.</p>
<p>He looked for the LAC he liked best but rejected Oberlin because he thought he’d be at the bottom of their pool ability level-wise. Maybe he’s just a kid that lacks self-esteem, but the didn’t want to be surrounded by musicians that far outperformed him every day. He thought he’d just quit.</p>
<p>I know. Not the most edifying point of view. He also did not want to go that far from home and refused to look at Oberlin.</p>
<p>He was admitted to Bard, but not its conservatory, though the head of the conservatory send him a note that he was impressed by his compositions and could study with them any time. Such a nice touch. It’s a much smaller program that Obelin’s.</p>
<p>He ended up with a wonderful array of choices and choose Williams for its strength in many academic areas.</p>
<p>After a year as an unhappy music major, he is now a very happy Classics major. He works in the college library and is thinking of blending library science with classics to curate classics collections. We’ll see. </p>
<p>He sings in the chorus, plays in the orchestra and acts in Shakespeare plays. He has many other options available to him, and has been happy with his choices.</p>
<p>I stress that this is not for a serious performer (or maybe Williams is with the Berkshire symphony. Not sure.) But I thought I’d just give the OP another kind of story with different perameters.</p>
<p>Yup, no doubt about it. My kid is tentative. If you kid is very bold and confident, feel free to discount all of the above.</p>
<p>Having read the requirements for the B.A. in Musical Studies at Oberlin, I feel that the information given here about opportunities for B.A. students in Musical Studies to participate in music classes, private lessons and ensembles in the Conservatory so far is incomplete. Here is a link to a page in the Course Catalog that gives more information. (Hope it works).</p>
<p>Note it states that music conservatory academic courses may be filled by conservatory students and unavailable to other students. Not clear how often that occurs. Also, it states that enrollment in private lessons follows an audition and there is no guarantee that a student in the B.A. program would be assigned to conservatory faculty or even advanced students for private lessons in certain areas because of limited time available. Again, not clear how often that would happen, or how often the teachers for these B.A. students are conservatory students rather than faculty. That may or may not be important for the particular student. It mentions that priority is given to “advanced students” which of course is a relative term since there probably are a lot of highly accomplished musicians in the B.A. program at Oberlin who opted for liberal arts education rather than conservatory training. As for ensembles open to nonconservatory students, I would check for information about auditions required for participation in some of the ensembles. </p>
<p>I think the B.A. program in Musical Studies could be great for certain students and it also appears that there are may be many musical opportunities for other students in the Arts and Sciences program interested in music, especially if they have had advanced training and possibly for others with a broader but less focused interest in a particular musical area. And of course the environment at Oberlin would be great for any liberal arts student who is interested in attending music performances/concerts. </p>
<p>But for the prospective student in the Arts and Sciences program who wants to spend a lot of time studying/playing an instrument and performing, I think it would be important to get as much information as possible, ideally from students who majored in Musical Studies in the College of Arts and Sciences or other students from the College of Arts and Sciences (not double degree students) who tried to get involved in music activities in the Conservatory.</p>
<p>Liberal Arts University Professor weighs in with the ranking:</p>
<p>JHU (yet, stronger in life sciences than humanities)
Oberlin (strongest humanities)
Wesleyan
Bowdoin (sorry, Bowdoin fans)
NYU
Rochester</p>
<p>I consider Oberlin to be a “mini-ivy.”</p>
<p>There is a difference between a liberal arts music major and a performance major at a school of music or conservatory, even when both are located on the same campus. It sounds to me like your son’s interests in music are basically extracurricular and that he might not enjoy the academic studies associated with the liberal arts major (music theory, analysis, music history, etc.) unless he finds a program emphasizing jazz studies. </p>
<p>In the time left before the decision must be filed, I would visit as many schools as you can get to.</p>