Son not enjoying CTY this year

Parents Forum
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<p>I hope this is the right thread for this topic, as I would like some advice.</p>

<p>My son has participated in the CTY program for three years, this year being his third, and his first year in the older students program. He is taking medical sciences and is finding it difficult. He feels "dumb" and of course this is not something he is used to. He seems quite unhappy on the phone at night.</p>

<p>Most of the kids in the class are a couple of years older than he is (he is 13) and have had biology and chemistry, while he has not as he is entering 8th grade in the fall. He feels this may be the reason that he "doesn't get" some things. There also seems to be a dramatically increased emphasis on studying (they have a midterm and final scheduled) rather than exploring through question and answer, and lab work. </p>

<p>His previous two years at CTY were incredible....he took Examining the Evidence and then Flight Science.</p>

<p>I'm seriously considering pulling him out because I don't want my previously very confident son to return to school in the fall with no confidence in his abilities.</p>

<p>The social piece is going fine as my son is very gregarious. Even there, however, he is one of the younger kids in his RA group. Also, there really isn't much social time in the older students program, as class is seven hours per day. This school (Roger Williams) is also much larger in terms of enrollment than his last one (Mount Holyoke) was.</p>

<p>Any advice? </p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

2

<p>First of all, it is summer camp. It is supposed to be fun. I would tell him not to worry about the academics. If the subject is interesting, enjoy it for what it is and to ignore the pressure of studying for exams.</p>

<p>Most CTY sites have multiple courses, so you might speak with them about switching him to something else, perhaps where the enrollment includes more kids his age and educational level.</p>

3

<p>If this is the first time he's really been challenged, then he may need time to adjust that feeling--and time to learn to enjoy a challenge. Also, this is just the first week, so you may need to give him time to just adjust in general.</p>

<p>Have you asked him to talk to his RA and teacher about this?</p>

4

<p>Onesharon:</p>

<p>My S went to big CTY after going to junior CTY one summer, also at Mt Holyoke. At 13, he was the youngest in his group of rising seniors as he was taking Physics. He got along fine in class, but his socializing took place among kids more his age who were taking Intro to Lab Science. This was made possible by the fact that the hallway was occupied by kids from the two classes.
While the students are in class for about 7 hours a day, he still found plenty of time to socialize (the normal schoolday is about 6 hours, after all). But it's true the pace is much faster than at Junior CTY or in regular classes.
Your son should not feel he is competing against other kids in his class. The important thing is whether he is being challenged to a level he is comfortable with or whether it is beyond his current level of preparation and sapping his self-confidence. Whatever the case, no kid attending a CTY camp should feel dumb. Remind him that if the older kids seem to do better, it is because they have had more preparation not because they are more intelligent than him.
If he can keep up, albeit with a bit of effort, he will feel very happy with himself at the end of the third week. Remember it IS the first week. If, however, he continues to feel that he is in above his head, ask whether he should and could go down a notch and take the intro to lab sciences course.</p>

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<p>Yes, listen to Marite. And don't worry, this is only summer camp!</p>

<p>(Welcome back, Marite.. So nice to see you from time to time. Hope your family is having a great summer).</p>

6

<p>Achat:</p>

<p>Thanks! I can't keep away, can I?
I'm trying to get S to do some gardening before disappearing into PROMYS for the next six weeks, but alas, rain is predicted for the next couple of days. Drat. He did go to the barber yesterday to get his hair mowed, er, cut (same effect).</p>

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<p>Another welcome back Marite. You have truly been missed. Hope you give us an update thread or share your tale of woe on sinners alley:)</p>

8

<p>Thank you everyone. It was so nice to wake up this morning (after posting in the middle of the night, no less!) and have so many concerned replies!</p>

<p>I know it's only the first week, but when I compare his demeanor with that of his usual one (and, of course, the way he felt last year), it upsets me. I don't think this course was billed any differently than any other course in terms of it being for older vs. younger kids, so there was really no way of knowing whether he would be prepared. (Presumably everyone is prepared for every course unless there is a prerequisite, right?) </p>

<p>I did ask him about changing classes, and he doesn't want to do it because he thinks he would have to change RA groups. (I told him he probably would not, but I think the idea of having to start over with an unknown is probably scaring him a bit.) Also, he feels that none of the other classes sound as appealing, except for perhaps Computer Science. The other set of kids in his RA group are taking Chemistry, by the way...so most of them are entering 10th grade.</p>

<p>I've tried to emphasize to him that it doesn't matter how he does...that it doesn't count at all...that he should be enjoying the experience. But when he goes to a class and really doesn't understand something, and feels like most everyone (he is at least aware the kid sitting next to him also doesn't get it, which is probably a help actually) understands but him...well, it's just not good for his self-confidence. And, of course, this means he's not even enjoying the learning of the information!</p>

<p>He does not want me to call and he does not want to speak to the instructor nor the TA. I think he feels like there is nothing they can do. (Would you do it anyway against his wishes?) </p>

<p>As someone mentioned, it's only three weeks, but as a parent of a child who is calling me every night sounding so down, and who already is asking if my husband can come up and see him this weekend....I guess I'm just upset at the way the whole experience is playing out He's already told me he won't be going back to CTY next summer, and I think it's such a shame that he already feels that way.</p>

<p>Thanks so much again....</p>

9

<p>Onesharon
Again, I urge you to speak to the director--now, rather than later. Two summers my S's courses were not what was expected, and it seems such a waste. Socializing with kids his own age wasn't hard, but the disappointment with classwork turned him off to each program. Neither was CTY, by the way.
Marite, I can't tell you how pleased I am to see your post. I so enjoy how you express your wealth of information, and I look forward to hearing more about your Ss.</p>

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<p>As the mother of veteran CTY'ers who went on to be staff.... I think a phone call to the site director is in order. The RA's and TA's receive extensive training and coaching on how to deal with kids who feel out of their element, but they won't be able to help your son unless they know how he's feeling. They can most definitely help him, but they need to know there is a problem.</p>

<p>My son also transitioned from Examining the Evidence into a tough science class once he started "Big" CTY, and the first week was rocky but by the end he was crying as he said good-bye just like everyone else.</p>

<p>The good news is that your son is probably not the only kid who is over his head... the instructor would be happy to slow things down, or explain things more fully, but needs to know there's a problem. My son worked closely with an instructor one summer when one of the kids (he was an RA not a TA) was struggling and the instructor was so grateful to be told that there was an issue. The students just don't feel comfortable going to the "authority figure", i.e. the teacher, so that's why the RA's can be so helpful intervening.</p>

<p>However, the Site Director is the first point of contact (or the academic counseling person... every site has one.) My bet is that after a weekend of socializing and water balloons or ultimate frisbee your son will be feeling much better, but why let him tough it out when there's so much institutional support available????</p>

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<p>To elaborate on Blossom's comments, it is worth contacting the site director. If your S is unwilling to ask for help because it would make him feel "dumb," once the instructor and TA have been alerted by the site director to the fact that some kids are not getting it, they can move more slowly and/or can try to discreetly identify kids who need more support catching up with the better prepared older kids. By being more proactive themselves, they avoid putting the burden of self-identification and initiative-taking on the kids.</p>

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<p>Thanks again all.</p>

<p>I did just call the Site Director. I have to say, her response was initially what I would have expected. She simply said "Well what do you want me to do?" (It's her first year as Site Director.) I told her that I didn't really know, but what I didn't want was for my son to come home feeling dumb, as his intelligence is what gives him self-confidence, and if that self-confidence is eroded, it could have lasting effects. </p>

<p>She told me she would have some discussions with some folks and call me back. I'm sure it will be a long wait for me!</p>

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<p>My son also attended CTY post-seventh grade (Ancient Greek) and frequently called home in tears about how "dumb" he was. He also was one of the youngest in his group; no matter how much I tried to reassure him by telling him that it was natural to be confused when inundated with material unlike anything he'd been exposed to before and by encouraging him to give himself time before reaching conclusions about his abilities, he was inconsolable. Although I thought it likely the other students were in the same boat with him, he insisted with certainty that he was the only one who was having such a hard time. To make a long story short, when we met with his instructor at the end of the class we learned that my son had been chosen to lead the class "performance" because he'd been the strongest student in the class, and that the instructor had chosen to teach the course at an even more accelerated rate than usual because the group as a whole had been so strong. My son had a very different perception of himself and the course at the end of the session than he'd had at the beginning (although he nevertheless chose not to return to CTY subsequently). Conclusion: you can't always predict how things will turn out if you hang in there.</p>

<p>One other thing to point out regarding your son is how situation-specific feelings of competence can be. His good experiences in courses-past provide him with evidence that whatever "dumbness" he's feeling is particular to the unique configuration of his present circumstances. Hopefully, this course will provide him with a chance to learn about how he can master what initially seems daunting. But, if the worst case scenario should occur and he continues to feel as he does now about the course, the longer term impact on his self-confidence should be mitigated by this larger perspective.</p>

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<p>I cannot speak to CTY specifically, but my son had a rocky time at a different, one-week camp where he was also much younger than everyone else. I know how heart-tugging those late night unhappy calls home can be for a parent! The problems my son had were social rather than academic, but nonetheless, he did not have a good time for most of the week. I did talk to the director about one of the problems, which was fixed simply by getting someone to drive him to a store. I didn't feel like there was anything to be done about other issues that came from him being young. By the end of the week, he was experiencing some improvement. He did return to the same program, and had a good experience for 4 subsequent summers.</p>

<p>I'm glad you called the director. I hope things improve for your son. And please keep us posted.</p>

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<p>marite - this a truly odd coincidence. I was thinking about you just this morning and how much your voice adds to the forum. Welcome.</p>

<p>To the OP, we have never done CTY. However, my daughter used to do American Ballet Theater summer intensives. They are audition-only and very competitive. The first summer, when she was a rising sophomore, she loved it. The second summer, as a rising junior, she was injured and so was no longer a star of the program. Also, she was older than all the other kids she was with, as a result of the injury, so the social piece was less than perfect.</p>

<p>It was six weeks in New York in a dreadful dorm. She was pretty miserable. But she stuck it out. All I want to say is that the experience has stayed with her - for FWIW. She learned a lot about her capabilities and what is worth suffering for and what isn't.</p>

<p>Now she was almost 16. Your son is 13. And a boy:), so maybe he wouldn't process the experience the same way. Just a datapoint. I'm not the let them suffer type, but sometimes stuff you want to save them from is good for them.</p>

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<p>I would be worried that if your son bails, he will be afraid of challenges in the future. It's good that you're concerned and have spoken to the head of program and you should certainly keep a close eye on the situation. But over the years, I've seen kids leave CTY and wondered what the lesson was. Easier to be big fish in small pond? </p>

<p>For many kids CTY is a reality check. They are best at everything back at home. Sticking it out, with your support and the knowledge that the older kids have more background, could be a wonderful experience in the end.</p>

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<p>I'm of mixed mind here. On the one hand, I believe in listening to your parental hunches, and yours is saying something's wrong. On the other hand, challenge and struggling is a REALLY GOOD thing. You want your kid to experience that.</p>

<p>So I guess, besides the contacting the director and the RA, which I think are great ideas, I'd ask your son whether he can try struggling for a while longer, because a) the grade doesn't matter, b) he's still learning, even if others are learning more, and c) he's learning to work and study. If the answer to this question is "I hate it, I want to come home" I'd then ask: how will you feel about yourself if you do? If the answer to that is unsure or "I'd hate myself for quitting," I'd push for more struggling; if the answer to that is: I'll go back next summer or "great," I'd bring him home.</p>

<p>And Marite: how lovely to hear from you!</p>

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<p>It can definitely be tough being the youngest in the class... my first year at CTY, I was twelve (skipped up a grade) in a class of 14-16 year olds. I'd call the site director and speak to his RA... maybe he could get transferred to a class with a higher proportion of younger CTYers (it's still early enough in the session, I think). Just remind him that he's doing remarkably well to keep up with kids with two key years of academic experience over him. However, I wouldn't pull him out. This is a feeling that he will experience throughout the rest of his life (in any upper-level class, competitive summer program, and selective college), and he needs to learn how to deal with it and be confident in himself despite this. There is always going to be someone smarter, more experienced, talented, better looking, etc... the sooner he learns to deal with it, the better. In the future, I'd also suggest humanities classes or History of Disease or something of that ilk; humanities classes depend far less on how much you know going into it and do not require out of class studying. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Onesharon:</p>

<p>A further thought. Maybe you could turn his youth to advantage by pointing out that, if he can do almost as well as kids much older and better prepared than he, he should feel proud of himself. Can he be convinced to think "I feel smart because I'm younger than the other students in the class and yet, I'm managing to achieve so much" instead of "I feel dumb because I'm younger than the other students in the class and that's why I'm achieving so little?" If your son were really struggling, that would be another story, but I don't get the feeling that he is. When my S took Physics at CTY, he was aware that most of the older kids were ahead of him. But the fact that the other kids were all 2-3 years older than him made him feel good about doing "okay." Perhaps your S can be made to feel the same way.</p>

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<p>Hi everyone. Still waiting to hear back from CTY...but just to clarify...my son is not currently asking to leave (remember...he didn't even want me to tell anyone he was struggling), although he has said he doesn't want to go back next year and does want my husband to come up to see him on Sunday. I am the one that is concerned about the erosion of his self-confidence and was wondering if he should stay. </p>

<p>We live in a fairly high-acheiving town, so my son has never really been in a position of feeling like the smartest in his school. He is one of a fairly large group of high-acheiving kids, and I actually think he has some insecurity that he is not as bright as some of them. That insecurity is probably feeding into the insecurity he is having up at CTY. </p>

<p>I hope I hear from someone soon, and as soon as I do I will let you all know. Your responses are helping me so much; thank you!</p>