<p>I don’t think Harvard is for everyone either. I just knew so many people who did just fine at Harvard who were not particularly driven or pushy or obnoxious or pretentious. Most kids are pretty normal. When my son turned down Harvard we were fine with it, because we knew he was making the right decision for him, for the right reasons. He liked the kids he met at Harvard much better than he expected to. He just didn’t like the department.</p>
<p>Hey, lighten up. I didn’t mean those were necessisarily BAD traits…they just kind of go with the territory for a school that’s so widely considered the ultimate American academic alpha dog. I have no doubt that those characteristics fade once the person graduates and is put back into a more “normal” environment, where such characteristics are not as necessary or omnipresent.</p>
<p>My main point, which I’ll try to make again, is that very few colleges would seem to be a good fit for a smaller range of graduating high schoolers than Harvard. I mean the brilliant country bumpkin might find a niche at Dartmouth, and the nerd with no social skills will fit in at MIT or Chicago. The painfully shy poet might thrive at Bowdoin. Can’t see any of those types (or many other types) being just right for Harvard.</p>
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<p>I wonder why Harvard has so many negative prejudices attached to it. The Harvard people I know who have attended certainly don’t fit any of those stereotypes (pushy, obnoxious, pretentious, etc.). Maybe the stereotypes fit more when Harvard was historically all male and its students came almost exclusively from exclusive boarding schools.</p>
<p>I guess it is the job of current Harvard grads to dispel those myths!</p>
<p>There are so many prejudices connected with Harvard because it’s the oldest and most respected college in the country, and because historically, it was a place for the wealthy elite.</p>
<p>When people meet Harvard grads and students who are down to earth, etc., people assume such folks are the exception to the rule. That, unfortunately, is how people respond to people who act differently than stereotypes.</p>
<p>There are worse things than to have one’s alma mater be assumed to be a bastion of the pushy, obnoxious and super brilliant. I laugh at the jokes about Harvard. My favorite is:</p>
<p>Person to Harvard student: “Do you know where Harvard Square is at?”
Harvard student: “At Harvard, I learned not to end sentences with prepositions.”
Person: “Do you know where Harvard Square is at, jackass?”</p>
<p>Someone who didn’t know I was a Harvard grad told me that joke at a party. I laughed genuinely and heartily and then mentioned it is my favorite joke, and I’m a Harvard grad. They became very embarassed – which wasn’t what I was trying to do. It really is my favorite joke, and it’s funny.</p>
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<p>Give me a break. Since when are “pushy obnoxious, and pretentious” ever regarded as good traits?</p>
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<p>I know perhaps a dozen or so current or recent Harvard students, and there are brilliant country bumpkins, nerds with no social skills, and shy poets found in even that small group. Plus there are quite a few polite, pleasant, middle-class “regular kids” who just happen to be very smart and very accomplished. And oh yeah, there is one girl I would characterize as a little pushy. Based on my experience, I’d say the “type” you regard as just right for Harvard is in pretty short supply there.</p>
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<p>Better quit while you’re behind.</p>
<p>My favorite Harvard (and MIT joke) which I heard on Car Talk, goes something like this.</p>
<p>A guy with 11 items is in a ten items or less lane at a Cambridge supermarket. The cashier says, “You must be a Harvard student who can’t count or an MIT student who can’t read.”</p>
<p>“My main point, which I’ll try to make again, is that very few colleges would seem to be a good fit for a smaller range of graduating high schoolers than Harvard. I mean the brilliant country bumpkin might find a niche at Dartmouth, and the nerd with no social skills will fit in at MIT or Chicago. The painfully shy poet might thrive at Bowdoin. Can’t see any of those types (or many other types) being just right for Harvard.”</p>
<p>Oh please. There are all types pretty much everywhere.</p>
<p>You guys (especially Pizzagirl) don’t read as well as you think you do. I DIDN’T say those types aren’t there (at Harvard). Or that Harvard grads didn’t include those types. What I DID say was that there are places where those types might fit in better than at Harvard, that just because Harvard is #1 on the block, it doesn’t necessisarily make it a perfect fit for everybody, and therefore people shouldn’t react like so many did to the OP’s son (Wha?? You’re turning down HARVARD??). No doubt there are 300 lb. guys who wear Speedos; that doesn’t mean that is the best fit for them.</p>
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I agree with the second part of the sentence, and have always said so. As for the first part, it is impossible to prove because the same person cannot attend two different colleges at a time. Take a nerd who is quite happy to be at Harvard. Would that nerd be happier at MIT? How does anyone–including the nerd-know? Would the shy poet who decided to go to Harvard for whatever reason be any happier at Bowdoin? Yes, if the shy poet is unhappy at Harvard.
It is true that there are some students who are not happy at Harvard; but while that has been documented (they succumbed to parental or peer pressure, they realized they did not like the setting, etc…, etc…) there has not been as much written about students who are unhappy at other colleges. For that reason, I take the incidence of student unhappiness at Harvard with a grain of salt. To be sure, Harvard has been shown to be somewhat low on the student satisfaction scale compared to some of its peers. But that’s because of specific defects (advising, lack of a student center, for example) but not because it’s “Harvard,” in other words, not because of some quality intrinsic to Harvard.</p>
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<p>And you also said that the types that <em>would</em> fit in at Harvard are the pushy, obnoxious, and pretentious types. So how do you know that nerds, poets, etc don’t fit at Harvard and the pushy ones do? Based on what? Is this merely “what you’ve heard” about the school? </p>
<p>What the people here with direct experience with the place are telling you is that the people you say won’t fit at Harvard far outnumber the obnoxious people that you think do fit. Apparently an awful lot of non-fitting nerds and poets fit in just fine, because they far outnumber the pushy and pretentious. They are surrounded by their fellow nerds and poets plus an awful lot of smart regular kids. The pushy and pretentious are in small enough minority that they can be easily ignored.</p>
<p>I just want to say that my daughter is a grad student at Harvard, I’ve visited several times, and I have yet to meet a student whom I’d consider pushy, pretentious or obnoxious. If anything, they are self-deprecating to a fault. The qualities I notice the most are seriousness of purpose and a fine sense of humor. Maybe I’m just not looking in the right places. :rolleyes:</p>
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<p>I agree. I have yet to meet a Harvard kid who wasn’t a witty conversationalist. They are a fun group to listen to.</p>
<p>The idea that a bright, capable young person at age 18 is so fixed in their ways, so unable to to adapt and so definable by pap like ‘country bumpkin’ strikes me as complete hooey. </p>
<p>I think the biggest challenge for many kids in going to Harvard (which I did not attend) or MIT (which I did) or Stanford (which I did) is getting used to being ‘one of the crowd’ and everything that goes with that.</p>
<p>I think the capacity to adapt and the mental well being to be able to make good in many different kinds of situations is reflective of the sort of intellect and mental attitude which gets kids accepted to these schools to begin with. If by some increment one school is a more superior fit than another, so be it. The 18 year old entering and the 21 year old leaving can be very different people.</p>
<p>One of my friends’ son went to Harvard and although he liked it and did well, he said that there was still alot of pressure. Especially for where you are ranked. I suppose this is this is true for many other schools as well. He is also a brilliant talented kid, who is really nice. So that is two kids I know. I don’t think you can go by stereotypes, my D goes to a prep school and there are all types there, and I believe that can be said for almost anywhere.</p>
<p>I have not the foggiest idea where my son is ranked. I assume that those who are concerned and know about it are probably pre-med, which is a highly competitive field at any college, from what I gather.</p>
<p>“What I DID say was that there are places where those types might fit in better than at Harvard, that just because Harvard is #1 on the block, it doesn’t necessisarily make it a perfect fit for everybody, and therefore people shouldn’t react like so many did to the OP’s son”</p>
<p>Schmaltz - was there someone on here who advocated that Harvard was the perfect fit for everybody?</p>
<p>I did my pre-med education at Harvard, and have no recollection of being ranked. (However, I have no recollection of many things that occurred there, so not sure what that means).</p>
<p>To the OP,
Did you drop the lad on his head as an infant or just recently? LOL</p>
<p>Harvard doesn’t rank, but I suppose you could worry about whether you’ve met the requirements for Latin honors. I’m sure pre-meds worry about where they stand against each other, but they are a special breed.</p>
<p>my friend’s son is brilliant and does well there, this is what she said to me, but also said it wasn’t a big deal because he does so well. Seems to me that the pressure out here for these kids is enoromous, pressure to acheive, pressure to get into good schools, and then pressure if you decide one of the schools isn’t for you. Especially if you choose a lower ranked school. My D although not a Harvard applicant chose lesser ranked school for the program she will be attending. Her friends also chose lower ranked schools for the program and this included harvard and Yale. I admire people who choose what is right for them, for whatever reason, they will be happy in life I believe. don’t get me wrong harvard is a fabulous opportunity, but not the be all to end all IMO. No school is the be all to end all unless it is right for you.</p>