Son refuses to take SAT IIs (and is being generally stubborn)

Parents Forum
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<p>I think the title line says it all...my son doesn't want to take any more tests and basically says that he's not going to apply to any colleges that require them anyway. As a fallback plan, I had signed him up (with his permission) for the ACTs since the ACT allows you to not take SAT IIs, but he has done zero prep for the ACT (has not even looked at a test to see how it's structured so that he is not surprised tomorrow).</p>

<p>I think part of this is that most of his friends have higher GPAs, and my son feels that the colleges they are talking about are not colleges he could get into anyway. (Boston College is an example, although I think he could possibly get in there.) What's frustrating is that he is an extremely bright kid with an IQ above 160 who used to do CTY programs. His grades are not as good as some of the high achievers, but he has good SAT scores (1980 in January, awaiting March), lots of leadership/athletics, and is well-respected in the school. He's a charming, wonderful kid with so much going for him!</p>

<p>I guess I will have to just lay off and let him find his own path...but is anyone else going through this?</p>

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<p>I think your plan to lay off him and allow him to find his own path is a good one. Most colleges don’t require SAT IIs anyway. He should be able to find a good fit where he can flourish among the colleges that don’t require SAT IIs.</p>

<p>I made my S take the SAT IIs. He’s bright (another CTY kid), and scored very high on the SAT, but didn’t bother to study for SAT IIs, so his scores on those were mediocre. The schools he applied to didn’t require SAT IIs, and he’s happy, flourishing, fulfilled socially and intellectually at the college that he chose.</p>

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<p>Ready to Roll, keep in mind that some schools will still require the SAT IIs in addition to the ACT. There is a list around here somewhere…</p>

<p>I don’t think there is much you can do about it at this point. He knows he is eliminating himself from these possibilities at the moment. He can always have a change of heart and take the SAT IIs in the fall, not the best option but maybe math and English or a language. If he chooses to limit himself and then has second thoughts later, there is always the option to transfer…</p>

<p>Have you and/or he met with his GC/college counselor yet? Could you arrange a meeting so he could hear from a third party another opinion?</p>

<p>Good luck. Is he taking the ACT on Sat? Maybe he will do better than he expects and have a turn around. Not too late to sign up for June SAT II tests. You can also get the book from collegeboard that contains one full test for each subject to give a baseline of what his scores would be. As with your ACT experience, no point in paying for a test where he isn’t engaged and won’t get a good grade. however if he is really good in physics (for example) and could get a good grade on that with little effort, it might be good to get that in the bag in case he decides to reconsider in the fall.</p>

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<p>Our school tells every student to take minimum 2 SAT IIs, one in math/science and one in humanities. It is just a minimum. There are a few schools that even require 3. My nephew was denied to his first choice because he didn’t realize they required 3 SAT IIs. There are also quite a few schools that would take ACT over SAT IIs, so that may be a good way to go, if he is prepared.</p>

<p>I don’t know your relationship with your son, but he may think you are pushing too hard. I would explain to him that by not taking SAT IIs he is losing the option of applying to some of those schools later. It is an option he will never get back if he should change his mind to apply to those schools later. </p>

<p>I would choose a school because it is a good school and a good fit, not because it doesn’t require SAT IIs.</p>

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<p>Is he a junior? Judging by some of my friends/colleagues with similar issues, the best approach had been to do some college visits together with him, including to a few reaches that could really excite him. Make sure you attend both tours and info sessions so he can hear the requirements from someone other than you. Once he sees what he may be missing, by not taking the tests, he may be inspired to work harder/ get out of the slump. I know of a few cases where such an approach worked. Plus it has an added bonus of spending time in a car with him, which is a natural conduit for bonding/talking.</p>

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<p>Remember, he can take the SAT IIs in the fall if he changes his mind about where he wishes to apply.</p>

<p>There really are plenty of schools, however, that should be good fits even if he doesn’t take the SAT II.</p>

<p>And sometimes the best way that students learn is by doing something like not taking the SAT IIs and then finding out that they can’t apply to a college that they at the last minute fell in love with. Better to learn such lessons about planning ahead at 18 than when much more is at stake.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the input…it is much appreciated.</p>

<p>He is doing some college visits with his dad in a couple of weeks, but his dad has a very laid back attitude about the whole thing (similar to my son)…he will get in where he gets in. (Which is funny, since dad went to an Ivy for college.) I don’t think he will be trying to talk my son into taking SAT IIs during the trip! Also, the only school they are looking at that says SAT IIs are considered is Michigan, I think. All the schools they are looking at are so spread out that they require hours to drive from one to another (Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin, Penn State). We haven’t even made any plans to get to Boston yet, and since my son doesn’t want to miss any school, we may not see other colleges until summer.</p>

<p>In retrospect, we should visited colleges earlier than now. (My son is a junior.) I guess I’ll know better the next time around.</p>

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<p>Your son more than likely will land happily at a college where he’ll be academically and socially fulfilled. Remember, there’s not one college that’s absolutely perfect for anyone: There are a variety of colleges that could be good fits.</p>

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<p>My D didn’t take any SAT IIs. None of the schools she applied to or seriously considered required them, so it didn’t really limit her options. Granted, she wasn’t aiming for the Ivy League, but it doesn’t sound like your son is either. Many, many fine schools do not require these tests.</p>

<p>D would’ve done well on them, I’m sure. She’s a good test-taker. But she was already taking the SAT I, the ACT, and multiple AP tests, on top of all her regular homework, and it was causing her a lot of stress. I wanted her to be excited about planning for college, not dreading it and feeling like there was an endless gauntlet of tests she had to run.</p>

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<p>He will be just fine. I never interfere with whatever my D was taking, I politely suggeted to take less than more, we even lost some $$ after she registered to take ACT second time, but than decided that one time is enough. We supported her every decision.</p>

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<p>Just remember that if any schools says that the SAT IIs are not “required” but “recommeded,” it means you only have to take them if you wish to be admitted to that school. ;)</p>

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<p>He won’t need any SATs for Michigan. I live in Michigan and the ACT is much more common (it is part of state standardized testing now, so it is free for everyone) and many kids only use the ACT. That is all my S used and many of his friends used. Many of those friends are now at UMich. Even UChicago didn’t require them.</p>

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<p>RTR, that sounds like our son who also balked at taking any SAT2’s. Knowing that there were relatively few colleges requiring these tests we supported him. The only college he applied to that suggested SAT2’s was Case and when visiting he asked if the failure to take these optional tests would impact there admission decisions. The said it would not and they were true to their word. He was accepted and offered a Trustees Scholarship @ $17500/yr.</p>

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<p>I just remember something: some schools will take ACT instead of SAT + SAT IIs’</p>

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<p>my son only did the ACT and did not take any SAT ll tests despite several of his college choices recommending them. His acceptance list was quite good with only penn being a waitlist. He was accepted at Case, USC, and several other top schools with good merit money. </p>

<p>Depending on the college choice, the SAT lls are optional and many kids do fine without them.</p>

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<p>I think it is important that college decisions are ultimately the students, not the parents. Our job is to make sure they are informed decisions. So, I would suggest making sure he understands that for most schools you can take either ACT or SAT I and some schools require or recommend SAT II’s in addition. He can easily find out which ones need which and then go from there. SAT II’s can be taken in the fall, for most schools up to the Dec. sitting so if he gets excited about a school that needs him, he can take them later. If you push he will probably push back and you wind up with ugly.</p>

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<p>I’m with oldfort. I feel like a prison guard compared to the others, but kids don’t know what they don’t know and they can be lazy. This combination, if not managed, can eliminate many opportunities from their future.</p>

<p>In my house parent’s have jobs and kids have jobs. The kids’ job is to do their best in school and fulfill their potential. There were exams we required them to take even when the preferred not to.</p>

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<p>Case says: </p>

<p>“We do not require SAT II (subject) test scores, but you may send them if you feel they strengthen your application.”</p>

<p>Hopkins says: </p>

<p>“Up to three SAT subject tests are recommended. Applicants interested in an engineering major should submit scores from the Mathematics Level 2 SAT subject test and at least one science SAT subject test.”</p>

<p>Big difference between those schools.</p>

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<p>IMHO, if you force him, you are just asking for greater struggles. My DS wanted NOTHING to do with standardized testing. We paid for the prep class; he did not open the book, and his scores were the same (given standard deviations) as they were before he enrolled. He wanted nothing to do with SATIIs - the whole testing thing struck him as false and an imperfect measure of intelligence. In the end, for the one sitting he did for each, he did fine, but who knows what would have happened had he just opened the book.</p>

<p>I did not learn from that experience though. </p>

<p>The difficulties getting DS to test were followed up by difficulties in getting him to submit applications. He would start them, and leave them incomplete. He would fail to get teacher recomendations, and then say he could not ask the teacher because it would be rude to do so right near the deadline. He would dismiss parts of the process as an imperfect measure of him - which they are. He would complete part of but not all of scholarship applications. Frankly, it was argument central here, about the need to do things timely and not make excuses. The applications he completed were VERY well done, at the 11th hour, and on his terms, all while his DM went bonkers wishing he were more proactive. </p>

<p>I still did not learn to step away.</p>

<p>As the announcements drew near, his ‘chill’ personna became magnified. He still has not looked at the decisions for the schools that announced on the 31st, because he has told himself he’s excercising restraint ! </p>

<p>Finally, totally, a light bulb went off in the peabrain of his DM -----Translation from the man/boyspeak - he hates rejection, and the whole process has been a set up to have to hurt - to him. In his 17 year old, very articulate way, he’s found a method to be negative about the process, and in so-doing, hide his fears. I do not think he’s the only one. He’s the type of kid who could convince you the sky is purple on any given Sunday, and that’s a talent that’s taken him far in the classroom. He’s also managed to score well on standardized tests for his minimal efforts. But, in the end, he’s as afraid of rejection as many are, and this is how it is displayed. He does not go play basketball - he just tries not to overinvest…</p>

<p>Had I to do this go around again, I would have just let him be sooner. Because he may know where he needs to be rather than where he has the potential to be better than I.</p>

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<p>For my kids we’re approaching them this way … they are driving their college selection process including their test prep and taking strategy. This approach has the obvious downside of lack of choices if one of my kids has a crappy plan. </p>

<p>However there is a second half to our approach … if our kids do not go to college they can stay at home for one year while paying rent … after that year we’re giving them the boot.</p>

<p>So our kids can procrastinate and make self-defeating choices however the consequences are staring them in the face. (This approach will need to be revisited if one of kids developes issues that truely prevent them from making good decisions).</p>