South Carolina Honors College v. University of North Carolina?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of South Carolina
1

Hi all, before Ivy decisions come out, I want to narrow down these two options. I’ll give all the information by school, including financial info.

SCHC: I am a Top Scholar, so net cost would be less than $9,000 and I would graduate with over $10,000 left in my savings account for graduate school, and my parents would be able to fully support any extravagant eating, travelling, and shopping habits. Top Scholar status also comes with a free laptop, special academic and national scholarship/fellowship advisors, priority registration, priority parking and dorms. Basically, anything I want academically will be given to me. If I go to USC, I will do International Business and Economics (College of Arts and Sciences), which is not exactly what I want to do but would give me an edge in the workforce. I really, really like USC’s campus and the other Top Scholars and Honors College kids that I met, but I have concerns about the rest of the student body, the conservative atmosphere of the South Carolina, and the lack of diversity.

UNC: I am in Honors Carolina but received no merit aid. I am OOS and also received no need-based aid, so I will have to pay the full COA. As a result, I will graduate with approximately $90,000 in debt. However, UNC has exactly what I want to study, and is the only college in the country with a Contemporary European Studies major for undergraduates and a five-year master’s program that I could pursue. I love, love, love the academics at UNC and I know that it is ranked higher. I haven’t toured the campus yet, but I have spoken to a lot of students who are more like me: artsy, quirky, intelligent, liberal. It seems like a larger portion of students are like this at UNC than at USC. Despite being in Honors Carolina, I will still be a small fish in a big pond and will need to work hard to distinguish myself.

I am definitely going to grad school, hopefully the Kennedy School of Government, Oxford, Cambridge, or Sciences Po and want to study abroad for at least a year.

2

If you are definitely going to grad school, it makes little difference where you got your undergraduate degree. If it comes down to two different programs, I would take the one that saves you $100k, gives you a lot more freedom and advantages. Although you may think you know what you want to do, on average students change majors 3-5 times during their undergraduate years. This is why many colleges now do not have students choosing a major the first or even second year. You really don’t know what will happen and it is good if the school is large enough to accommodate what major you may eventually fall into. Finally, as far as liberalness goes, USC has a reputation for being conservative. I find that it is actually a broad cross-section and quite representative of the country, with different outlooks. For every conservative student, you will find a liberal one. I feel that all viewpoints are represented, but it is very different from other universities that are predominantly liberal. If you are the type to be offended by someone expressing different thought than you, then you might find USC uncomfortable, and you would fit in better at another school where everyone is taught to think alike.

3

I’d pick USC and I’d join an international business cohort with a European country. Take as many honors classes as you can, add classes to create your own minor in European studies, spend time abroad to become bilingual.

4

imo, you are overweighting the value of a specific major in ‘Contemporary European Studies’ (you can get functionally the same degree lots of places, and the actual value of that specific major for applying to grad school is not obvious) and an integrated 5 year masters (there are plenty of colleges that offer that, but more to the point, there is no special merit in IR/PP-type fields to an integrated masters).

also imo you are also undervaluing what it means to have NINETY THOUSAND DOLLARS of debt: how long that will take to pay off, the limits it will put on you in accepting internships, in accepting jobs, in affording grad school, in making your way as a young adult. The IR / public policy fields expect you to do poorly-stipended internships followed by low paid jobs as you earn your stripes. Kennedy is $50K/year tuition only, and the others aren’t that much less. So add another $100K of debt.

agree with @MYOS1634 on the language skills

5

I agree with @collegemom3717. SC’s IB program is top notch, and will give you a practical degree that employers will value. Getting this type of program at the cost that you’re getting is amazing. Study abroad is a required part of the IB curriculum I believe, and you could even do the Cohort program in France. Consider a second major in Poli Sci or some other subject to complement your IB degree.

Think about it…since UNC is the only school in the country offering a degree in “Contemporary European Studies” the likely response from anyone outside of UNC will likely be “what exactly is a BA in Contemporary European Studies?”. I can’t see going into debt $90K for that, and then trying to do graduate school. At current interest rates, that comes out to over $1,000 per month for 10 years to pay off the loan!

6

Have you seriously considered whether you will be able to borrow the money necessary to go to UNC, and then be able to borrow on top of that, the amount needed for grad school? Even if you can find someone to loan you that amount, even with a co-signor, the interest rates on private loans are crazy high. You mentioned in an earlier post that your Dad was unemployed which may limit his ability to co-sign. A basic loan calculator shows that $90k in debt at 10% over 10 years will cost $1189/month. And you will be paying $52k in interest. Granted, lots of kids have to borrow that much money for an undergraduate degree even at the cheapest in state rates. But you are in the enviable position of not having to pay that amount.
That is the financial view. Then you need to consider prestige and fit. I think that UNC and USC HC are close enough that any prestige issues are really going to depend on how you view USC. Are you going to find yourself explaining why you chose one school over the other to everyone you meet because you feel that one is less prestigious? Generally speaking, I do believe that prestige has some value. But does it have $90k worth?
The last consideration is overall fit. I do believe that some places don’t feel right. Sometimes for very specific reasons. Sometimes not. I recall walking off a college tour at Carnegie Mellon when I was your age. I was supposed to have an overnight at the school. I had an uncomfortable vibe during the tour. We left and I never looked back. It wouldn’t have mattered how much they offered me. I would not have been happy.

I understand how hard it is to make choices. For the adults, the money makes it an easy decision. Like others have said above, the precise degree that you obtain is far less important in the long run than the experience that you gain along the way.
I do think its good that you are weighing options and thinking things through.

7

I’m responding because you remind me SO much of my sister. Very bright, a francophile (making an assumption!) an very much concerned about the school name/prestige. She did her undergrad at Yale and then turned down free rides to places like UVA for law school because she got in to Yale, Harvard and Stanford (went back to Yale…). The name was big for her, and she admits she’s a snob about it. She was definitely an Ivy kid. Yale was ridiculously liberal, which was the only negative for her (she’s über-conservative), and full of very studious, very driven kids. Not that you wouldn’t find those at UNC or SCHC, but it was much more across the board. She was willing to take on the debt for the name. I didn’t get it–my husband and I are both public-school educated (UF) and are much better off financially than she and her MIT husband are, so for ME, name doesn’t mean squat–it’s who you are and what you do with your degree(s). But for some, like my sister, they cannot live with the idea of not having the “name” and would feel less-than for going to a public school, even if it has the top programs in the country. So that’s something you really need to figure out–are you going to be embarrassed when you tell people you went to USC? Will you always feel like you have to justify it? “It has the #1 Honors College and #1 IB program in the country…”. ??? I know you haven’t heard back from your Ivies yet, but this is all stuff to think about. Is it going to bother YOU to go to a lesser-known/less-prestigious school? Are you always going to wish you’d gone elsewhere? If you got in to SCHC but got rejected outright from UNC, would you be pining away for what could have been? I agree with everyone else that undergrad doesn’t mean as much in the scheme of things and coming out of that debt-free is the most logical. But I also see that for some people, like my sister, the name is worth it. Look into your heart and try to see what you truly want. Where will you be proud to say you went? You may go to USC and end up feeling ridiculously proud to be part of their programs, but you may wistfully look at peers who went to Ivies or more prestigious schools and feel inferior.

8

You can’t take out 90k in debt - most as a student is 27k. Would your parents be on-board for borrowing that much? One thing about USC honors is that you do a senior project and it can be anything you want so you can use that to focus on your interest. Plus, my D had great experience with professors so you might find a mentor that will help you work on that. As Top Scholar, you will get extra attention, especially from scholarship and fellowship office to help to apply for those things. You can also research with a professor and get paid thru a Magellan grant.

To me, there’s a lot going for USC anyway (and I know NC residents that picked USC over state schools) but the cost difference would be very important. If you end up doing a masters in business or humanities you are not likely to be funded. Money saved for grad school is key.

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@lesjubilants Which Top Scholar award did you receive? I will advise that you know all of the fees associated with both schools. At USC, being a member of the Honor’s College adds roughly $1000 a year in fees and being in Darla Moore adds another $1,350. My oldest is not a Top Scholar but is in the Honor’s College and has the Cooper (now Elite) and after that we were still looking at $24,000 per year (after fees and modest books and transportation expenses). If you have the Horseshoe you are still looking at $17,000 per year. I have no idea what the extra fees are at UNC as neither of my kids would even consider it (and we are NC residents).

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The IB program at USC is top notch. Even if USC has an overall more conservative feel, you will still “find your people”. And I agree- save $ for grad school. See what happens with the rest of your applications, but USC makes much better sense of theses 2.

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Full ride versus $0. The answer is a no-brainer. If someone offered me a brand new free Ford Fusion or pay full cost for a Toyota Camry, I don’t care how much better the Camry is, I’ll be much further ahead taking the Ford.

12

USC Honors College with an IB major is a great option.

I really do not see any issue here; the clear choice is South Carolina.

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I’m not sure if the deadline has passed for the CIFA cohort application. My Dd is in the cohort and the program has students attending UDauphine in Paris for a yr. Cohort admissions has stringent criteria and the application process requires research, an essay, and iirc an oral language proficiency test. Anyway, it is an excellent way to spend a yr in Europe. :slight_smile:

Fwiw, there are plenty of very liberal kids on USC’s campus.

(And in terms of costs, Dd is a TS plus Lieber and total costs are very low. Are you a NMF?)

14

No, I’m from New Jersey. The NJ Qualifying Index last year was the highest in the country, and I was a point below. :confused: Quite frustrating when my PSAT score is above the qualifying mark for almost every other state (ugh!!). I expect to get over $5,000 in private, local scholarships though and I have the McNair Scholarship. Either way, cost isn’t a concern at all for USC. @Mom2aphysicsgeek

15

This isn’t a close question. Go to USC. Your adult self will thank your teenage self for avoiding the albatross of $90K of debt.

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The smartest financial choice is USC however if you will constantly feel like you have “settled” you may not be happy. You may also alienate the other Top Scholars that are happy to be at USC. Yes, UNC is more highly rated and hard to get in OOS, but part is that is because the NC law limits the percent of OOS to 18%. So while the OOS are extremely bright, I have been told by a professor there that the NC students that make up the 82% are more diverse academically.My sister went to UNC and experienced this as well. No doubt, there are many, many intelligent people there, but sometimes the selectivity has many contributing factors, like that state law. There will be much more diversity at USC where about 50% are OOS. But if prestige and pedigree is important to you, you may regret USC. And that is OK, we all have to figure out what we want and go for it.

17

Thank you for your input everyone!!! USC has made it past this round of decisions! I have to hear back from 9 more schools so I imagine I’ll be posting a similar thread with a different school in the near future. I just don’t want to make the wrong choice, you know?

18

Wait till you see all decisions before you go through this exercise.

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I wanted to narrow down UNC and USC before I (hopefully!) add more schools to the mix. I’m a little indecisive @websensation

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@lesjubilants I thought of you this past weekend as we made a trip to UNC and University of South Carolina in one weekend. I hope that you feel more comfortable with your choices.