<p>@sally305 So we agree then! 
</p>
<p>HahaâŠI didnât make my point very well. I donât think of 8 hours away as âcloseâ and, in my sonâs case, I wouldnât expect him to wind up in Little Rock or Memphis. And 8 hoursâ travel in some parts of the country can put you in a really different region.</p>
<p>What I should have said is that I donât think fear of a kid going to another part of the country and not coming back because they like it so much is reason enough to not encourage them to explore a lot of options.:)</p>
<p>I completely agree, Sally305.</p>
<p>As promised, first review of schools on our mini-tour in the Carolinaâs.</p>
<p>Background: S is a senior, trying to find the right school. Nice, somewhat shy, and very polite. Strong interest in STEM, especially CS. Very studious, non-drinker. <em>Thinks</em> he wants an LAC because of wide-ranging interests from Classics to Arts, and wants to study abroad. We are from Minnesota.</p>
<p>I will list the impressions under Proâs, Conâs and Neutrals.</p>
<p>Day One: Davidson College, Davidson NC</p>
<p>Proâs:</p>
<p>Absolutely stunning campus, enhanced by visiting on a picture-perfect Fall day in the mid-60âs. Red brick buildings, sweeping lawns, brick-lined paths, huge oak trees. This is what a college should look like.</p>
<p>Lovely, consistent architecture. They have preserved the exteriors of the older buildings, carefully blending in additional wings to seamlessly add additional footage. Better yet, when you go in, the interiors are modern, well-lit and spacious.</p>
<p>The students appeared quite happy and content. Brief, non-scientific survey during out 6 hours on campus revealed no major complaints, and freshman are challenged, but in a good way. These are some smart kids here.</p>
<p>Small class-size, with 11 to 1 student to faculty ratio. Largest class is supposedly 32 students. All labs in STEM are taught by the professors, not anyone else. 100% of the faculty offer office hours, even though it is not mandatory. This is huge, IMO, especially since our S comes from a very small school.</p>
<p>Heavy involvement in study abroad, told it was 81%.</p>
<p>For OOS students, it is a 22 minute shot up the Interstate from the Charlotte airport, with shuttle service during major breaks. Very convenient to fly in and out.</p>
<p>Conâs</p>
<p>The primary issue, at least for us, is that I have the impression that STEM curriculum, particularly CS, is not a huge priority at Davidson, and that the school is playing catch-up. CS is not offered as a major here, but âmay become oneâ in â2-5 yearsâ. They need to hire 2-3 more faculty to flesh out the department. However, the faculty they do have is superb. The equipment they do have is terrific, but it is limited, and at least one computer lab is in a converted study room in the library basement.</p>
<p>Very limited merit aid. Davidson is a superb school, attracting strong students, but only â10%â according to Admissions are considered for merit aid. No disclosure-during Admissions info session-- how many of those top actually received it, as opposed to need-based aid. In fairness, Davidson is very prolific on need-based aid, and I had the strong impression that this is not only their priority, but their goal on spending money for admissions.</p>
<p>Visiting arrangements: Why on earth do they ask the visiting student to review their courses, and then contact the professors directly to see if they can sit in on classes, make sure the times work coordinating with tours and info sessions, find the classrooms, etc.? In our limited experience, most other schools take care of these type of arrangements through Admissions, providing the prospective student with an itinerary. I thought this was odd, and mighty inconvenient, probably for the professor, too.</p>
<p>Another small con: Davidson does not provide a pass or voucher for lunch. I donât know about other parents of Sâs, but food is important to some kids, and this seemed an odd omission. Again, in our experience, every other school has offered this to visiting students. Food service did look good in the tour.</p>
<p>Neutral</p>
<p>This really felt like a northern school transplanted and dropped into NC. We heard very few southern accents during our time on campus, with many kids coming from NE and the Mid-Atlantic.</p>
<p>Davidson just received a huge grant from the Duke Trust. They are spending it on new construction, and this was ongoing on a corner of the campus, adjacent to the library and stadium. However, this is a 10-year project, so may not have much practical impact on our S, or current enrollees.</p>
<p>Summary:</p>
<p>Lovely school in a great climate filled with smart, driven young people. Excellent faculty who makes itself accessible to the students. May not be the best fit academically for our S, but should be under strong consideration by anyone looking for a high-caliber LACâanywhere. Some small quibbles with Admissions outlined above.</p>
<p>Day 2: Furman University in Greenville, SC.</p>
<p>Superb review, ColdinMinny! Looking forward to your thoughts on Furman and Elon. </p>
<p>@4kids4colleges post 81, I was pleasantly surprised Vanderbiltâs net price came to $18k. But still very hard to be admitted.</p>
<p>@Overtheedgeâ , post 89, I am interested in your suggestions. We like William and Mary, but out of state COA is too much for us. I called financial aid office- was told conservatively to budget $200k for four year OOS. W&L caps OOS grants at 1/4 OOS tuition.</p>
<p>@Hippobirdyâ - Yes, hence my qualification âif money/merit wasnât a factorâ. My D didnât apply to W&M for the reasons you stated. We are full pay, OOS for VA schools, and she needed some merit money. What are you looking for in terms of cost, major, etc.? If your net price at Vandy is 18K, I assume your list will focus more on schools, like Vandy, with great FA, instead of schools where merit is likely.</p>
<p>@Hippobirdy: Furman? Emory? Tulane? If you are interested in engineering, perhaps Georgia Tech?</p>
<p>Thanks for the review of Davidson @ColdinMinny!</p>
<p>We are finally back in CO, happy to be home! No rain, sunshine all the time! Wish there were more LACs hereâŠ</p>
<p>Our last stop was at Guilford. Hereâs a quick review: I really liked it, D was kind of neutral about it. I felt the school was very nurturing, staff and professors care very much about their students. Campus pretty. Buildings not as nice as Centre, Sewanee, Agnes Scott, but have character. I really liked the library, with beautiful Carnegie Reading Room and library doubles as an art gallery â art displayed everywhere. </p>
<p>Quaker influence is huge! The Quaker values are evident all over campus. Students call professors and even the president by first name. Community service absolutely expected, a big part of the school. Very focused on equality, community, non-hierarchy. In that way, very different from Sewanee, where there is a distinction between the âgownedâ students and those still working on getting their gowns. Not better or worse, but clearly different. Any student focused on social justice, peace studies, etc., would be right at home at Guilford. </p>
<p>Felt a little like Haverford to me. Kind of Eastern Quaker boarding school-ish. </p>
<p>Guilford was on fall break so the only students we saw on campus were athletes. Tour guide was great. Info session OK, but was led by a new admissions person who actually just got there from U Alabama. So she seemed like she was still learning about Guilford. I think having former students do the info session is more helpful in general. </p>
<p>In the end, not a top contender because the 4 year grad rate is not great. I think there are more kids here who need extra help, maybe more âBâ students than âAâ students. Seemed not as rigorous academically, but really focused on developing the whole student. More experiential learning, more community service. </p>
<p>D may still apply, I think merit is very good, but the admissions person did say they are totally reviewing their merit/need aid programs. </p>
<p>On a different topic, Iâm wondering why Southwestern U outside Austin is not discussed more on CC? On paper it is similar to Hendrix, for example, as far as rankings, and it is just outside a great city. D is definitely going to visit (along with Trinity in San Antonio and Austin College outside Dallas), but may not happen until after she applies. Southwestern also has a low sticker price and great merit. </p>
<p>Another one that does not get much attention here is U of Redlands in CA, which is not strictly a LAC but seems close. NPC said $25k merit for my Dâs stats, not bad (although sticker price higher). Campus looks lovely online. Midway between Palm Springs and LA I think. </p>
<p>Thanks again for all the input! Now time to get those apps in. D will probably do about 20 applications. Yikes.</p>
<p>Day 2: Furman University, Greenville, SC</p>
<p>I will stick to a similar format as our visit to Davidson, with Proâs, Conâs and Neutral items.</p>
<p>Proâs:</p>
<p>I thought Davidson was beautiful. Well, Furman is even more gorgeous. The best word I would use is to describe the campus is âsprawlingâ. They have almost 800 acres, so the buildings are generously spaced, with plenty of green space between, all filled with water features, fountains, and some of the most beautiful landscaping I have ever seen. My S described that âit looks like a resortâ. There is a primary lake in the center of campus, with a large bell tower perched on a peninsula thrust into the lake.</p>
<p>The people, from the students themselves to faculty to staff were some of the happiest, friendliest people you could choose to meet. I picked up a distinct âlaid backâ vibe from the students, potentially aided that they had a short week and this was a Friday. Asked for directions, help, etc., and everyone was extraordinarily polite and helpful. Just a pleasure to be on campus.</p>
<p>Super organized visit process. They give a half hour information session with plenty of data, and then split the groups into walking tours of the academic, interior portion of the campus, and then golf cart tours to the extended areas of the campus. For our visit, they also added a lunch with a freshman student who shared similar interests as our S (a tremendous resource, and more schools would be well-advised to have Freshman talk to students, instead of upper classmen, since they just went through this process last year.) Then S attended a class in his intended major, then they had set up an interview with the head of that department. Simply put, THIS is what a visit should be.</p>
<p>Well-established âCLPâ, which I believe stands for Cultural Living Program. Basically, it is a graduation requirement that each Furman student must attend 32 of these CLP programs during their years at Furman. These opportunities run the gamut, from musical performances, to incoming speakers, to seminars, etc. I thought this is a very sound idea, as it forces students to stay engaged outside their majors and the college bubble. I have not heard of a similar program at other schools, but perhaps this is not unique. Still a good idea, in my book.</p>
<p>4-4-1 structure, or the âMayXâ. Furman has two ânormalâ semesters, and then has the option of taking a 3 week program in May. This can be in virtually anything, including study abroad. This would be helpful for students in majors/programs that make it hard to be absent for a full semester, giving them an opportunity to take advantage during the May semester outside of the framework of their ânormalâ classes.</p>
<p>Greenville itself was a revelation. Had never visited this city before, and it is an absolute gem. They have done an extensive, decade-long renovation of the downtown area, and now it reminds me a bit of San Antonioâs Riverwalk, on a smaller scale. We were downtown both Thursday and Friday nights, and had dinner and walked around quite a bit. Tons of great restaurants, people are all over the place enjoying the Fall weather, and it was simply lovely. Sâs comment: âI didnât know a City could be like thisâ.</p>
<p>Conâs</p>
<p>Cost. Furmanâs COA is now over $57K. I am sure it will hit $60K by the time current seniors in HS graduate from college. However, they do give some merit aid, with a variety of options. Admissions stressed to get all scholarship applications in on a timely basis. Poor transparency on scholarship prospects, and amounts. Some schools will give either a clear idea, or strong projections on what merit aid could be expected. Not Furman. Totally in the dark for now.</p>
<p>Drinking/Partying/Frats: The freshman student we had lunch with candidly indicated the obvious, and that students at Furman are drinking and partying. No surprise, but I definitely did pick up that vibe on campus. Greek presence is roughly 50%. In fairness, the freshman we met did not drink, nor did several of his immediate friends, and he said there was no pressure to drink. Nonetheless, it is there, and the frats/sororities are certainly a part of this.</p>
<p>OOS access to the airport is decent, but Greenville is not a major airline hub, so I suspect most air travelers are going to have to make connecting flights to come into Greenville. The other option might be Charlotte, but that is roughly 2 hours away by car, depending on traffic.</p>
<p>Neutral/Observations</p>
<p>I had a sense that most kids had cars here, one estimate was 90%. I had the strong impression that people hop in cars and go home, or get away from campus frequently. Many overheard conversations about âgoing to the beachâ and âgoing to the Mountainsâ, etc. This cuts both ways. On the one hand, it is a blessing that the school is located in an area with so much to offer. On the other hand, that takes people off campus, especially on weekends, and I am not certain based on our very brief visit how that would effect weekend campus social life.</p>
<p>This is an entirely visceral observation, but I think this school is a bit in transition, and not clearly set on where it wants to go. They have increased enrollment, reduced admission selectivity slightly, and-rumor has it-have decreased merit aid. So I am not sure what they are trying to do there exactly. Attract more high achievers, or increase their overall size, or become more diverse, or all of the above? Apparently they had a new president in the last couple years, so perhaps they are still sorting this out themselves.</p>
<p>Day 3: Elon</p>
<p>Two more superb reviews, 4kids and coldinminny. Thanks!</p>
<p>4kids: We will have to take a closer look at those Texas LACs, especially Southwestern being so close to Austin. About applications, they go in like hotcakes after the main CA essay is completed! D is still has a few supplemental essays to complete for other colleges, and those applications, naturally, are bringing up the rear.</p>
<p>coldinminny: If you believe NPCs, Furmanâs out of pocket costs are on the higher end of the spectrum for our familyâs situation compared to other Southern LACs. We stressed to D that it her heart shouldnât get too set on any one LAC until the reality of money is taken into account. Looking forward to the Elon review!</p>
<p>Hereâs an interesting teaching concept being embraced by some STEM professors at Southwestern University: the flipped classroom. I hadnât heard of this before but can see the benefits of it being more interactive and thought-provoking. <a href=âhttp://southwestern.edu/su_blogs/suonline/2014/09/22/flipped-classroom/â>http://southwestern.edu/su_blogs/suonline/2014/09/22/flipped-classroom/</a></p>
<p>FYI: Sewanee: The University of the South, which was previously listed in Colleges and Universities alphabetically under the letter âTâ for âTheâ University of the South, has now been moved to âSâ! </p>
<p>great reports on Davidson and Furman. thank you. did you get any idea of the quality of the science facilities, particularly labs, at either school?</p>
<p>@jkeil911 Regarding comparison of science facilities of Davidson v. Furman, I would give the edge to Furman, particularly their Chemistry Department.</p>
<p>This may be a bit of a sweeping generalization, but I really feel like STEM has not been a point of emphasis at Davidson, but that they are trying to address it with new construction. Davidsonâs Biology Department is highly ranked, but I think this is due to professors and students, vs. the physical facilities at their disposal. You are simply going to find higher-caliber academic students at Davidson, on average, based up much higher selectivity. But you are still going to find academic stars at Furman too, especially pre-med.</p>
<p>But if I understand your question to be focused on the physical infrastructure, Furman would get the edge in my opinion. That may not be true 5-10 years from now, but I believe it to be true right now.</p>
<p>Elon visited today, and will post my thoughts and impressions later this evening, after I have a chance to mentally digest what we saw and experienced.</p>
<p>thanks. looking forward to elon, CinM</p>
<p>Last stop on our âCarolina Tourâ: Elon University, Elon, NC</p>
<p>Same format, Proâs, Conâs and Neutral/Observations.</p>
<p>Proâs: Another beautiful campus on another beautiful fall day. Matching architecture, with red brick dominant. TONS of new construction present, including a new gigantic Admissions building opening Jan 2015.</p>
<p>A lot of excitement on campus, enhanced by coming during Homecoming.</p>
<p>Best programs appear to be the Business school and the Communications school. They have two full TV studios, and produce their own programs, one of which placed second for an Emmy last year.</p>
<p>Very concerted effort to require/encourage internships and off-campus engagement. Large study abroad program catalogue.</p>
<p>A variety of Fellows Programs, including an overall Honors Fellows program and several additional school-specific Fellows, e.g., Business Fellow. These are competitive, and come with scholarships and additional requirements.</p>
<p>Extremely nice dorms, I mean almost over the top nice. Another parent and I were joking during the tour that these students are going to have a rude awakening when they hunt for their first âreal worldâ apartment. The single we saw would easily run you $3K a month in a major city.</p>
<p>Relatively reasonable tuition. Total COA for this year is just under $42K, a substantial difference from its competitors.</p>
<p>Conâs:</p>
<p>The science facilities are disappointing, with the exception of the access to a human cadaver lab for Anatomy. The building exterior is gorgeous, the interior is, IMO, not up to par with many others toured.</p>
<p>The CS departmentâof particular interest to our Sâwas miniscule, with a single computer lab (at least that we could find and ID). This seemed incredible for a campus of almost 6K undergrads.</p>
<p>Obvious drinking/partying culture. This may be a plus to others, but when you have people drinking champagne inside the Math building, it is pretty obvious that it is an active culture here. </p>
<p>Campus is sprawling, and not necessarily in a good way. Buildings are scattered along one axis, and you would need a bike or leave plenty early from some parts of campus to get to classes. In addition, while freshmen and sophomores must live on campus, after that many do not, with apartments near and far. They state they want a residential campus, but they are not there yet. The cost of expanding admission classes without sufficient housing to date.</p>
<p>For OOS students, the Raleigh airport is a little over an hour away, but Elon does provide shuttles during breaks.</p>
<p>Elon, NC itself is not much to look at, and that is putting it kindly. We found a Subway, a cute coffee shop, and a gas station within walking distance. We took the time to drive around the area, and it is a big zilch. We did not tour Greensboro, which is about 15-20 minutes away, but they certainly were not talking Greensboro up during presentations.</p>
<p>Neutral/Observations:</p>
<p>Very much on the large size for an âLACâ, and they do have Masters candidates too. It feels that big, too, but the professors apparently are directly evaluated on interaction with students during office hours as part of tenure consideration. Current enrollment just shy of 6K.</p>
<p>Elon is clearly on an upward trajectory but is, IMO, going through some growing pains. My nickname for them would be that they are a âVeneer Schoolâ to some extent. They have spent enormous sums on fancy new buildings and absolutely deluxe new dorms, but do you need a brand new Admissions building that is 4-6 times larger than your Math, Statistics and CS building? Really? They make a concerted effort to show all the fancy new constructions, the lovely athletic facilities, this Great Hall that you could hold the UN in, but where does all that bolster your academics? I felt that they were catering to children of well-to-do parents who would like their kids matriculating into a safe, bubble environment with the very best of amenities. Elon certainly checks off those boxes. And if I had a child interested in Business or Communications, and he/she could get a Fellows appointment that would drive COA down into the low $20âs, this would be the school to look to and a bargain at that. In the end, for our Sâs needs, it will not work. But that, as my departed Mother used to say, is why they make Chocolate and Vanilla, so everyone gets their own choice.</p>
<p>Another superb review, ColdinMinny. Any more upcoming colleges tours for your family? </p>
<p>Like you, I have the impression that Elon is catering to a cold climate, full-pay parent clientele: a gorgeous school in a warm climate for their kids and what is behind door number two (academics) is of secondary concern. </p>
<p>@ColdinMinnyâ - Your clever term âVeneer Schoolâ pretty much sums up my impression of Elon when D and I visited.</p>