<p>UMD is not that much better than MSU. Use objective measures like selectivity and scores all you wish – they mean nothing. A public school of UMD or MSU’s stature is going to be a great experience regardless. If you’re a whore for numbers, then by all means attend UMD – in a numbers game UMD wins. But if you truly care for your undergraduate experience and fit, consider MSU. </p>
<p>For the higher end student (near the average student at UMD), MSU is a much better deal. Why? Two words: Honors College. MSU’s honor’s college is probably one of the best in the nation, easily besting similar programs at more selective schools like UMich; for a UMD admit, MSU’s HC is a very real possibility.</p>
<p>As an student of MSU’s honor’s college you get a small community of high achievers, first picks at all classes regardless of level, greater options for fulfilling distribution requirements, smaller classes, teacher interaction, and often times the chance to work alongside an established academic with a stipend to boot (yes, Honor’s college students get this very often). You get electrifying sports, incredible school spirit, large alumni network, world-class facilities and resources, beautiful campus, and awesome social life that comes with attending a Big Ten school. You get the opportunity to be around some of the most attractive people this side of the Mississippi too. And when you consider the scholarships that accompanies being in the HC at MSU, I think MSU is by far the better option.</p>
<p>Here’s an important question collegehelp: How does higher SAT scores make for a better college experience?</p>
<p>I don’t think it does. Say what you want, but SAT scores don’t account for much. They don’t assure smarter more dedicated peers. They don’t make for more successful people.</p>
<p>Morehouse College has much lower SAT scores than UMD but it sends more a higher percentage of it’s students to top graduate programs and banking firms. I guess Morehouse College is far greater than UMD on the only measure that counts – where students find themselves after college.</p>
<p>But what can I say? Morehouse College is a top-40 feeder school, whereas UMD is…?</p>
<p>MSU does have advantages over UMD. UMD isn’t one of the greatest party school’s in the nation. It’s Honor’s College isn’t as good as MSU’s (few publics have such a great Honor’s program). Nor does it have as nice a campus, or as amiable and beautiful a student body So no, UMD College Park doesn’t have all ‘those things’. It doesn’t even have a planetarium.</p>
<p>There’s no better school in my opinion. For some MSU might be better choice; for others UMD might be a match made in heaven. It’s all about fit.</p>
<p>Yeah, lets talk academic programs oops, I already did:</p>
<p>When you read such sites like StudentsReview.com and other places where the students on the ground, themselves, assess the atmosphere, I can guarantee you that MSU students more often than not talk about more about academics than they do at Maryland where, often (sometimes unfairly so imho) they harp on an allegedly high crime rate on the College Park campus.
And dont get me started on such strengths Maryland cant touch MSU in such as Nuclear physics/physics, music, most biological studies, MSUs great residential college program (which grew by one this year), political science, education, etc., etc - Quincy4</p>
<p>Let me add that MSUs residential colleges, now 3, an noted by scholars as high-quality programs for undergrads in intense LAC settings (with complete facilities on-site) trump UMDs more recent such programs where, essentially, you have to be an honors student to be accepted/enroll. At MSU, they are open to any student accepted into MSU, assuming he/she enrolls when space is still available (a tough proposition since these programs are known, internationally). The newest: the Residential College in Arts & Humanities (RCAH) just opened this fall These are supplemented by the living-learning concept whereby students may take around half of their 1st & 2nd classes thus, like with the RCs, give students a more hands-on, small-college type experience at the large internationally research U.</p>
<p>These above programs, and others not mentioned, are ones UMD cant match.</p>
<p>“Alchemy-
UMD College Park has all the things you named plus a student body with much higher average SAT scores.”</p>
<p>Collegehelp, again, you’re wrong on both aspects of this statement. You seem to want to ignore all that has been posted and view things through your own made-up mind. That’s discouraging and anti-intellectual.</p>
<p>Quincy4-
It is hard to ignore the large difference in the caliber of students between UMD College Park and Michigan State. The caliber of students is the most important index of quality. I’ll say it again: UMD CP students have average SAT scores that are about 150 points higher than Michigan State students.</p>
<p>As long as the OP is aware of this difference when he/she makes a decision, that’s the important thing.</p>
<p>I don’t blame you for defending your school, though. Michigan State has a lot going for it.</p>
<p>are you implying that the average UMD student is the higher end at MSU? You seem to compare the average UMD students with the Honors College at MSU and that’s not fair. Besides regular students, UMD also has a Scholar Program, Honors, and Gemstone. People who got admitted into Gemstone are Ivy qualities. Along with getting a degree, they work closely in a group to research similar to a phD thesis (but it’s a group of undergrad committed for 4 years). There are lots of different niches you can find within UMD.</p>
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<p>You can be wrong about that. UMD is a party school too.</p>
<p>MSU is 1 year older than UMD and has 10,000 more students. Overall, the 2 schools are great. But in term rankings, scores, sports, location … UMD is slightly better than MSU. Of course the college experience varies for different people.</p>
<p>Not that I want to get sucked into this debate, but one important area where UMD clearly lags MSU is in graduation rate. I reviewed the common data sets for both schools and the six year graduation rate for UMDCP, depending upon the cohort reviewed, is between 62-64%. The six year graduation rate for MSU, again depending upon the cohort reviewed, is between 71-77%. That strikes me as a pretty significant difference and it raises a number of possible explanations, including: (a) a significant portion of the students that UMD is admitting can’t handle the work, which leads one to question the validity of some of the posts here extolling the academic quality of UMD’s student population; (b) a significant number of students aren’t happy at UMD and transfer out; and, (c) MSU does a better job of selecting and admitting students who will be successful academically and, perhaps, gives them more academic support once they arrive on campus than does UMD. Of course, there could be any number of alternative explanations, but the numbers are what they are.</p>
<p>gbesq-
According to the US Department of Education’s IPEDS website, Maryland’s most recent graduation rate was 79% whereas Michigan State’s most recent graduation rate was 74%. These are the official numbers for bachelor’s degree seeking freshmen after six years.</p>
<p>gbesq-
I am not sure what’s going on with the common data sets. You would think the graduation rate would be calculated the same way as IPEDS, but maybe there are different definitions for common data sets. I don’t know anything about CDS.</p>
<p>US News also has Maryland’s grad rate a little higher than Mich State’s.</p>
<p>I agree that the secondary sources do put UMDCP’s six year graduation rate above MSU’s, but the CDS as well as some of the internal documents that I’ve reviewed on UMDCP’s website indicate the reverse. I suspect that the explanation is that while the common data sets show the most recent set of “real” numbers (i.e., the 2007 CDS six year graduate rate would be based on the class entering in 2000), the secondary sources extrapolate data and make estimates. I prefer the actual numbers from the universities themselves. Another point that I would make is that if you factor in the six year graduation rates at ALL of the UMD campuses, the six year graduation rate for the system as a whole falls dramatically. All of this being said, I refer back to my first post in which I said that UMD and MSU are both great schools – why not leave it at that?</p>
<p>gbesq-
The data I looked at on IPEDS was the most recent-for the class that entered in 2000. I don’t think any figures are available for the class that entered in 2001. </p>
<p>The IPEDS graduation rate calculation is the one prescribed by law and has a very detailed and explicit formula. The CDS?..I am not sure.</p>
<p>What is the point of factoring in all UMD campuses? The OP is considering only UMD College Park.</p>
<p>I agree that UMD CP and Michigan State are both great schools but the OP is trying to make an important decision and should be aware of all the salient facts including the higher SAT scores at UMD CP. Why not simply say that they are both great schools but UMDCP has better students…and leave it at that?</p>
<p>gbesq, I do sense from the anecdotal evidence from students at both schools, both current and recent, that the depression/unhappiness level at UMD is considerably higher than at MSU… Stated in the positive, MSU students have a much greater satisfaction rate and esprit de corps. Take a look at StudentsReview.com and read for yourself. I wouldn’t look at 1 or 2 students, but the cumulative effect (read, say, 25 to 30 on each campus) of what I’m saying is clearly borne out by the student comments. Whatever it is at MSU, there’s just something students latch on to… Conversely, for a lot of UMD, students (as one famous politician said) there’s simply no there, there.</p>
<p>And I’m not speaking in a vacuum, either. I’ve spent a lot of time in College Park and know UMD very well. I’ve gone to many conferences there and even took some potential HSers there for tours (so I can’t hate the place that much, huh collegehelp?).</p>
<p>Btw, take a look at the site for MSU’s newest Residential College in the Arts & Humanities (RCAH) and tell me Maryland tops this program in any of there’s. (and remember, RCAH, unlike UMD’s res college/living-learning program are NOT honors colleges):</p>