Sports at Williams/Amherst/Middlebury

<p>I think IPBear is saying that the student body is very well rounded, and although many students value athletics and participate in them, that is by no means their only focus and they also devote large amounts of time to academic and other interests with great success.</p>

<p>^ Of course. I'm attracted to AWM despite the culture because of the stellar academics; but I do have concerns about said culture and the influence of athletics. "Students value athletics and participate in them"--to a greater degree than at, say, Swarthmore, correct? I'm trying to gauge how much of a greater degree it is and how much it affects the campus culture accordingly.</p>

<p>Someone's sarcasm detector needs a tone up. Anyway, let me put it this way: AWM is much more alike Swarthmore than Boston College with regards to this.</p>

<p>^ Heh, actually I meant that -I- wasn't being sarcastic in asking for clarification. But I can see how that was ambiguous.</p>

<p>I agree that AWM is more like Swarthmore than BC; but, more like Swat or, say, Haverford?</p>

<p>
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I'm attracted to AWM despite the culture because of the stellar academics

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Liberal arts colleges value "well-rounded" students. But at AWM, to a greater degree than most other LACs, the "well-rounded" ideal includes athletics, as well as academics. The students who attend these schools tend to value both.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"Students value athletics and participate in them"--to a greater degree than at, say, Swarthmore, correct?

[/quote]
Yes. Here's one simple way to evaluate the importance attached to athletics at a LAC: see if the school has a football team.</p>

<p>Supporting football is a huge commitment for a LAC. A school like Amherst, for example, has a football roster of around 80 -- which is about 10% of the total male enrollment. It's a very tough challenge for a top LAC to field a reasonable football team, while maintaining high academic standards. Yet many of the best LACs, including Williams and Midd as well as Amherst, strive to do so. They see football as a valuable tradition and source of campus spirit, and commit a lot of resources to support it (up to a point -- the NESCAC schools play the shortest season in NCAA, with no postseason games allowed).</p>

<p>If you cannot fathom why an academically stellar LAC would make an expensive commitment to a game oriented around high-speed bodily collisions, then maybe you would be a better fit at other LACs that don't play it. Examples include Swarthmore, Haverford, and Reed; former women's colleges like Vassar, Skidmore, and ConnColl; and of course current women's colleges.</p>

<p>Sorry if I failed to detect sarcasm..it's a little more difficult to do so technologically than it is in person...but anyway, I would say that if a person completely hates athletics, AWM wouldn't be the place to go. However, if a person doesn't particularly like athletics but doesn't mind them, I don't think they would see a problem with Amherst or the like.</p>

<p>We're not talking Ohio State here, where athletics are one of the only things people care about. We're talking liberal arts schools, which will inherently be much more intellectual than other types of schools. I would recommend the time-tested method of visiting the school. Do an overnight if possible. That's still the best way to see if it will work for you. Even if you can only make it to one of the three, that would be fine just to see if the atmosphere suits you or not.</p>

<p>^^ The football litmus test is interesting, but not always accurate. For example, Oberlin, Macalester, and Beloit all have football teams, but their "vibe" has never included athletics. (Or maybe it only works for the NE?)</p>

<p>bigp, thank you for the advice--I can't overnight unless I'm accepted, but at this point I think that Amherst still merits an application (Williams cut for unrelated academic reason, Midd because Haverford is closer and more generous with FA).</p>

<p>
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I can't overnight unless I'm accepted

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</p>

<p>Why? You can certainly overnight at Swarthmore (and I assume Haverford) before you even apply. My daughter overnighted in October of her senior year. From Delaware, these schools can't be more than an hour or two away. I would DEFINITELY take advantage of the opportunity to overnight at one or more. It will really help you in college selection and it's a lot of fun.</p>

<p>BTW, here's a website where you can search for officially reported data on athletics at any college or university:</p>

<p>Equity</a> in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool Website</p>

<p>Just enter the desired school name, hit search and follow the links. The first page shows the number of athletes, male and female by team. There's data on overall enrollment so you can get percentages.</p>

<p>There are additional links for pages showing expense and revenue numbers.</p>

<p>Clarification: I can't overnight at AWM unless I'm accepted--too far away to travel, esp. since I've already visited the campuses of A and W. Swat and Haverford are definitely possible.</p>

<p>Thanks for the link!</p>

<p>The Equity in Athletics tool yields some interesting results. Among the LACs, Oberlin is lowest at ~11%, no surprise there (despite fielding a football team); highest is Bowdoin at 39%, followed by 34% Williams, 34% Haverford (unexpected), and 32% Amherst. Midd comes in at a relatively modest 26% (also unexpected), equal to Grinnell.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that Oberlin and Middlebury have relatively large student bodies (for a liberal arts college)...well over 2000 as opposed to the more typical 1800 or so. This drives down the percentage.</p>

<p>Hmm, true. Although it's still a plus in my book, because larger student body = smaller fraction of students being varsity athletes = good.</p>

<p>If it were that simple, you would just pick the largest state university you could find, because the percentage of varsity athletes in a student body of 50,000 is miniscule.</p>

<p>Pay attention to campus cultures. Middlebury is a very sports oriented school.</p>

<p>Sigh. But campus culture is notoriously nebulous, and there's never a straight answer.</p>

<p>
[quote]
^^ The football litmus test is interesting, but not always accurate. For example, Oberlin, Macalester, and Beloit all have football teams, but their "vibe" has never included athletics.

[/quote]
The point is that if a school doesn't have a football team, that should tell you something.</p>