Sports

Parents Forum
1

<p>Am I the only parent of a high school student who questions the value of sports? I have rarely heard of students in my city attending a college with much in the way of name recognition on a sports scholarship. Furthermore, the students in my daughters' high school who pursue sports really hard rarely seem to go to very selective schools. They usually lack the gpa and scores. A fair number seem to go to regional little known small private schools with, say, 1/2 tuition scholarships. When I think of all the sports camps, travel team costs, private coaching, etc. -- not to mention the opportunity costs in terms of building their intellectual side, I just really don't see the point. Fitness is very important to me, but even that seems to be lost these days as I see students getting injured, gulping down fast food on their way to meets, and having parent role models who are sadly out of shape themselves because they're always at a game or picking up from a practice instead of at home having a nutritious dinner as a family. </p>

<p>I know sports is practically the national religion right now but wonder if any parents on here share my views. I get lonely.</p>

2

<p>I am known locally for standing up in school board meetings and suggesting that the district shut down the football program, which costs about a million dollars per year in each of four high schools, to serve about 80 boys a year. It costs a great deal more than any other sports program, causes a huge rate of injuries (including concussions that threaten health long term)... and every time I get booed down.</p>

<p>So, yes, I'm with you, part of the way. How about the schools spend the same money on more inclusive, safer sports, that can be pursued lifelong? Swimming? track? even soccer? ultimate frisbee? orienteering?</p>

3

<p>In our community, yes, you would be one of the few parents who questions the value of sports. Sports/excercise are an integral part of life, imo. Every one of the 12 Ivy-league bound students from our school were scholar-athletes. I do not share your views. Sorry.</p>

4

<p>dmd77 - I'm with you where you're going on this. I would like to see an overall shift in focus to the fitness and health of all students -- more intramurals that are inclusive and less time-consuming, letting kids the opportunity to get a good workout and still have dinner with their families and hit the books at a reasonable hour. I'm especially troubled by how rushed our children are becoming. Classes are becoming a nuissance to be handled as efficiently as possible. They miss so much with that attitude, even if they are managing A's.</p>

5

<p>You are not alone, but be prepared to share with me lots and lots of abuse from our fellow cc posters.</p>

<p>Our school board dislikes me because I made a big noise about them spending over 2 million dollars putting artificial turf on the football fields, while we have to close schools for days on end for "heat days" in Aug. and Sept. because of lack of A/C. My daughter's honors biology class has no textbooks (too pricey) but the football fields look nice.</p>

<p>It's probably best if I stop here.</p>

6

<p>At our school I have seen one student attend a top Ivy who was a varsity athlete although not recruited to play his sport. Every year about 7% of the seniors go to HYPSM. The vast majority are extremely scholastic, occasionally musical, always engaged in activities, but no, not athletics in a serious way. I personally know several parents of students who have made huge efforts on their sports and have been bitterly disappointed in the results. I know the received wisdom is that sports are the ticket to elite schools. I just rarely actually see that happen. I do see many, many intelligent students taking partial scholarships to relatively unknown schools in order to keep playing their sport.</p>

7

<p>I do not share the OP's views whatsoever. I have a kid who did three varsity sports in HS as well as did some of these same sports in programs outside of school in addition. She didn't do these sports to get into college. She had done these sports her entire life because she LOVED them. That was the ONLY reason. </p>

<p>It so happens, since you (the OP) say that many of the athletes you see are not such good students, that she had a perfect GPA in the most demanding course load possible (and then some) and was valedictorian. At her school, I believe almost every kid in the top ten was also an athlete. Almost every kid in the NHS was also an athlete. </p>

<p>My D was not a recruited athelete for college and certainly has no sports scholarship. She had a very positive admissions outcome and attends an Ivy League school where she is on a varsity sports team. </p>

<p>She does sports in college because of her passion and would never want to give it up. </p>

<p>She is NEVER going to be an athlete for her career. In fact, she is applying to graduate school now and will have to give up competition in her sport as they do not do that in grad school but hopefully her sport is a lifelong interest but her competition days are dwindling. :(</p>

<p>Sports have so many benefits. There is the goal setting and sense of accomplishment. There is the collaboration. There is the social benefits and bonding with those who share your passion. There is the physical fitness. There is the skill at time management juggling sports and academics. There is even the recognition (which is not why she is in it but it is an after effect) such as making Academic All American (which even think a grad school would look favorably upon someone who can time manage and do well in college while putting in umpteen hours in their sport and exceling). </p>

<p>You mention "opportunity costs in terms of building their intellectual side," and I don't see that at all. My kid's academics are very important to her and she has excelled tremendously in K-12 and now maintains an A average at a very demanding college. It is possible to be a strong athlete and a strong student. Some of my D's college teammates are pre-med and even taking Organic Chemistry while having to put in countless hours per week for their sport and travel and be away all weekend in season. Many, like my D, are ALSO involved in OTHER activities.....be it student leadership positions, music, theater, etc. In fact, I see no difference with a very busy athlete from a busy kid in another endeavor. I have a child who goes to school all day and is in her EC all night until very late at night and all weekend as well. She is in musical theater. All these endeavors have been very meaningful and worthwhile in my kids' lives, even though they are also top academic students. I do not think my kids are unique. Look at any selective college and you will find students who excel at academics and who managed to also excel at one or more sports, performing arts, or other commited endeavors. Many of these students, including my own, did these ECs out of love for these activities. I know my own kids would have done these very same activities in HS had they never pursued college.</p>

8

<p>There's an assumption that if that kid who played football in high school team and went on to play for HYP had studied more and competed less, he could have gotten into college (HYP) based just on his grades and scores. That is not always the way it is. Many of these student athletes are strong students, but might not have had the chance to go to an Ivy if it weren't for sports. So no, I don't agree that football is taking anyone away from pursuing their academic potential- for some, football helped get them to the place they want to be. </p>

<p>I know a kid who is a gifted athlete; absolutely amazing. He is an average student, hardworking, but no matter how hard he tries, he's not going to get straight A's in 8 AP's and a 1500 on his SAT. For him, football is his golden ticket to a decent college.</p>

<p>I also have a friend with a son whose IQ is very low. He will NOT graduate high school with a real diploma. It's a heartbreaking scenario (complications during childbirth). Anyway, he is gifted at sports. For him (and his parents), sports have been the only light in his life during high school. It would break my heart to see the one thing he shines at taken away, because no matter what he does, no matter how many hours he studies, he will never pass algebra.</p>

<p>And before we go down the "but then they'll just go on to college, displace others, and wash out", that subject has been discussed ad nauseum on CC, and there is ample evidence that not all student athletes fail out of school.</p>

<p>Why so many sports haters? Our school built a multi-million dollar theater auditorium. I don't hear people complain because performing arts takes time away from academics.</p>

<p>No abuse from me. You have a right to your opinion.</p>

<p>There are also many people who have the attitude of "go to the highest ranked/most prestigious/best name schools no matter what". That's a value judgement, and you have a right to that opinion for your family. But plenty of people have gone to relatively unknown schools and enjoyed their college experience, treasure it, and go on to successful lives. There is no "right" or "wrong" about picking colleges. My kids didn't go to the most prestigious schools they got into, because of "fit" issues. Maybe for someone, being able to continue playing football is a fit issue. So be it. No wrongness there.</p>

9

<p>Thank you soozievt!</p>

<p>Looking at the posts above yours, it seemed that everyone focused on the physical fitness aspect of sport, that while it is important, is probably the smallest of the benefits of participating in a sport.</p>

<p>I think those reactions speak to the general misconception that college is a place for the really smart kids to get even smarter.</p>

<p>And that misses the broader goal of universities. They are trying to make complete citizens. Yes, intellectual intellegence is the piece most people focus on, but there are so many other things... And besides athletics (this topic) as secondary endeavors of schools, you have things like student government - which serves to promote the ideals of self-governance, you have arts and cultural programs (theatre, music, public speakers, etc.) which serves to promote the aesthetic needs of a civilized culture.</p>

<p>One other thing soozievt didn't mention was the sense of community that athletics brings to a university. It may seem strange to the OP that a community needs something trivial like sports to bring a diverse community together and forge a sense of common identity, but sports do help bring people together for the good of the whole campus community.</p>

<p>And that sense of community pays dividends to the university as those people who strongly identify with the school community are far more likely to donate as alumni than those who just show up to class and go home.</p>

<p>If you'd like the experience of a school without sports, the University of Phoenix is always open!</p>

10

<p>soozievt, you have correctly pointed out that musical theater works just as well as sports at teaching team-building, commitment, time management, etc. The same was true of my son's team-based engineering/math/science/robotics oriented activities. Unfortunately, there are many cc posters who think sports are unique in their ability to teach the broader lessons of life, and I strongly disagree with that.</p>

<p>Perhaps my son's one college rejection was partially due to his lack of a sports record; I wouldn't know. The college he is attending is commonly thought to favor (and be favored by) students with a strong interest in athletics. Despite his obvious lack of interest in organized sports, S was admitted with a full merit scholarship. So, from our perspective, it does appear that participation in organized athletics is not a requirement, generally, for success in the college sweepstakes.</p>

11

<p>I don't see any difference between sports and any other heavily committed EC endeavors. Both my kids have also been heavily committed to performing arts. </p>

<p>I feel that my kids and many many whom I know are MORE than just smart academic kids. They are well rounded people with interests, skills, achievements that go beyond the academic classroom. When I would describe them or other kids I know, I could come up with many adjectives and "identities" beyond "smart/academic". Sports, along with their other lifelong commitments to EC endeavors are part of their identity. I am sitting here surrounded by pictures of my kids doing their ECs including sports. Being an athlete, dancer, theater performer, etc. is part of their holistic make up. Their lives have been enriched by these pursuits. One of my kids went onto college to pursue her EC as her major course of study even. That is not true of my athlete but athletics takes up as many hours in her life just about as her demanding academics at her college. Both are part of who she is and both are worthwhile in her development.</p>

12

<p>mammall- Your post displays a complete lack of understanding of athletics and an erroneous assessment of the paths MOST athletes take with respect to higher education. As with many "sports haters", your idea of "sports" means something involving a helmet or bouncing a ball. You are overlooking many other sports which also require athleticism, discipline, teamwork and, yes, intelligence. Most of the athletes I know- including those of the helmet variety- DO care about their educations and their futures and do NOT sacrifice these things for their sport. </p>

<p>I have an athlete-son who is at an Ivy and was recruited by a number of other highly selective schools. He attended high school with a number of equally talented-and intelligent-kids who were devoted to their sports AND to their academics. I have a daughter who is a musician and went to high school at a specialized arts academy. My one regret is that she did not have the opportunity to participate in high school sports, due to the demands of her music.</p>

13

<p>Our regional paper has sport player profiles 5 days/week and many more during all county all state selection periods. It is surprising the number of high calibre athletes who are admitted to HYP and other highly selective schools. The statistics in the Game of Life indicate that no other class of applicant gets a bigger boost in admissions than recruited athletes and that includes URM's.</p>

<p>Having been an All-County athlete in hs(albeit in golf) and a very average x country runner, I found both quite valuable insofar as I still golf for pleasure and continue to run an maintain a modicum of aerobic conditioning. I cannot think of any one class I took in hs as being any more valuable.</p>

14

<p>midmo, I cross posted with you but I completely agree about robotics team. For me, this is not about sports but about any heavily committed EC endeavor beyond the classroom/academics and so we can sub robotics, theater, sports, student newspaper, student government, etc. Same thing to me. </p>

<p>Goaliedad...I agree that colleges want to create "complete citizens." They want kids who are not JUST good at academics but who excel outside the classroom and who will contribute to the campus community and eventually to communities of their own once outside of college. </p>

<p>You bring up a good point about the sense of community that athletics bring to the university. I forgot about that. It so happens that my D's varsity sport at her college is not of that nature and all of the events take place away from the school and the only spectators are their parents. :D</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
I know the received wisdom is that sports are the ticket to elite schools.

[/quote]
I don't think that is a common perception at all. The numbers don't support that claim & very few athletes I know compete because of college hooks. </p>

<p>Many of the big $$$ college sports are pursued as lifelong interests. Ever see guys playing touch football on a Sunday morning? Or hear of middle aged men (like my H -- a biomechanical engineer pushing 50) out checking each other into the boards at the local rink? Suzie's D is a ski racer. I would bet my last dollar that she'll still be skiing, if not racing, when she's a senior citizen.</p>

<p>I guess we just have different experiences. The top students at D's school are athletes. Neither she nor her peers are overlooking their intellectual development at all. Sports participation has many wonderful character building aspects beyond the glory. Perhaps only other athletes see it, but that's fine. Athletes may hire athletes, eagle schouts may hire eagle scouts. There's a place for everyone out there.</p>

16

<p>Sports, music, art, student government, debate, volunteerism, etc.,are all very important and need to be encouraged by the school. In that sense, I am strongly in favor of sports in school and college. </p>

<p>Having said that, I believe that our society and most high schools overemphasize the importance of competitive team sports. Given limited resources, this means that there is very little money or importance allocated to all the other activities. We do this as a nation. The schools just reflect our national priorities. </p>

<p>Paradoxically, this sports obsession has not stopped the national obseity epidemic. If all those football fans got off their couch and actually ran a few yards themselves, we would have a far more healthy country.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
If all those football fans got off their couch and actually ran a few yards themselves, we would have a far more healthy country.

[/quote]
LOL! I try to practice this. Before every ND game I catch on the tube, I toss the football around with my son. Otherwise, I'd feel like a real blob on the couch.....</p>

18

<p>I agree with SS that while some may do sports as a ticket to college.....most do sports for the love of the sport and may continue to do that sport beyond their college days....depending on what he sport is....like my D is a tennis player and ski racer which she can continue throughout life but her soccer days are dwindling as she would need a team for that (I realize there are adult leagues and all). </p>

<p>I do think it would be great if high schools had intramural sports so that more can participate and if they revamped some of the gym classes to include more lifelong physical conditioning activities than what they do now (here).</p>

19

<p>soozievt,</p>

<p>Women's hockey (except at a few schools) isn't much better at attracting a crowd. :)</p>

<p>And speaking of women, I think many people can testify that sports participation does more for the self-confidence of our young women than anything else they participate in. I know it has done wonders for goaliegirl.</p>

<p>Oh, and by the way, if people think sports are expensive, don't go looking at instrumental music. </p>

<p>I have a female goalie. About the only sport that comes to mind that is more expensive than hockey goaltending is equestrian.</p>

<p>However, I grew up in a household of string players (I am a violist). I know that my brother who makes his living with his string bass (both as a performer and in the college environment) was playing on instruments that cost more than both of our cars combined while he was in high school. </p>

<p>And most college orchestras carry about as many players as a college football team. And that goes with the previously mentioned expensive performance facilities (and practice facilities). Point is that many of these non-academic endeavors (99% of college orchestra musicians will never play pro - just like football players) have a similar financial impact on a university.</p>

<p>I'm just lucky my daughter took up goaltending, instead of the harp. LOL</p>

20

<p>As I read some of these posts, I quickly understand the reason for the compliant. Sport is lacking in their kid's life and the feeling is they are exculded from certain schools because of it. So it must be bad....</p>

<p>It disapoints that some circle the wagons around their favorites and demand that other things stop because they aren't good for the "children" or the "community", when it reality it's for selfish purposes. I don't like what "they" are doing because "we" don't do it.</p>

<p>If I adopted the same pov, I could demand music go away, arts go away, humanities go away,, blah blah blah... because they don't help my situation.</p>

<p>How about understanding that how you are wired isn't necessarily the right or wrong way, it's just how you are wired? </p>

<p>I would never take away the arts from children anymore than I would take away sport.. I can't be that self centered. We wanted our kids to dabble in all worlds to find what works for them. Arts, sports part of their upbringing. Both enjoy the arts and sports as young adults. Both are on successufl career paths (in other words you wouldn't be ashamed to tell people what your DIL or SIL did, you'd brag). They have an understanding and appreication for both aspects in education. And yes, both are important in education.</p>

<p>Some here have already listed the pros of participation in sport. </p>

<p>My observation about sport is it is a SAFE place to learn about losing. learning why you lost, fixing it and trying again. How many situations allow our children that learning experience? </p>

<p>I have had the pleasure of having a kid who is really smart and very atheletic. Currently he is in his first year of med school and has just scored his first try in his third game ever of rugby. The outlet rugby allows him will make him a better medical student, which in turn will make him a better doctor. Those who understand the importance of sport get what I mean right away. </p>

<p>The other finds her sport is equestrian riding. Her break during the heavy school week of bio/chem clears her head and allows life's stresses to go away for awhile. She also plays soccer and tennis. Sometimes the best thing for the brain, is a tired body. </p>

<p>A balanced body and mind leads to a balanced person.</p>