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I'm just lucky my daughter took up goaltending, instead of the harp.
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Yeah, but a harp smells a lot better than hockey equipment....</p>
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Yeah, but a harp smells a lot better than hockey equipment....
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<p>However, I can store the hockey equipment in the garage!</p>
<p>I agree with all that you wrote Opie. :D</p>
<p>goaliedad....lots of these endeavors are expensive. Both my kids used to do horseback riding and horse shows when younger and that is a very expensive sport but we never bought the horse but add that in (which you almost gotta do to excel) and whoa. I can tell you that ski racing is very expensive!!! But so are all the voice lessons, dance lessons, piano lessons, clarinet lessons, etc. that we have shelled out. If you hang out on the Musical Theater forum, you will come to know that the expenses involved for applicants are high. There is the voice and acting private lessons/coaching, the dance classes and then travel to all these college auditions in order to be admitted (this is true for music students as well). Both my kids played piano ten years prior to college. Luckily they had the baby grand piano I grew up with as that is quite the expense, but they each also played another instrument (buying the instrument and of course the lessons). These were all enriching activities and not with college in mind. Their activities began when young and went right up to college and most of them are continued IN college. I recently went to see one of my D's in a performance in NYC (she is studying to be a musical theater actress) but this performance was a professional one where she was the musical director and also the pianist on a grand piano in front of the performers on stage. She was paid well. She was only 18. All I could think of was.....all those years of piano lessons paid off....who knew then?</p>
<p>I agree with Opie that sports is a good place to learn about losing...in my daughter's case it was also a good place to learn how it feels to really suck at something. In all seriousness, it makes her a LOT more able to understand how the "stupid" kids feel in class. It prevents her from looking down upon someone who just happens to be not as smart as everyone else.</p>
<p>Oh yeah, Soozie!</p>
<p>I know about the expenses of a musician. I was pointing out just the tip of the iceberg (the cost of my brother's high school bass) to the non-musicians out there. I know how much per hour my brother charges for private lessons. </p>
<p>Oh, I forgot about skiing as an expensive sport, although it is more of the travel nature of the expense. </p>
<p>And for those who can make a living doing the artistic they love (theatre or music or other), I can't think of anything better.</p>
<p>I had my first paying gig at age 14 (nice to have older brothers who could drive and play) and shortly thereafter decided that the pressure I put on myself when playing for pay took the joy out of music, so I decided to find another means of supporting myself.</p>
<p>BTW, your children are very lucky to have such supportive parents!</p>
<p>GoalieDad, actually travel is not what I was thinking of in terms of the expense for skiing. It so happens that we live in a town with ski resorts. There was travel for races but that was the least of it. The equipment for a ski racer is very expensive. They must have race stock skis, not just any skis....at least two pairs (one for Giant Slalom, one for slalom) and most have more like four pairs.....some used just for training and some used on race days, or an all mountain free ski or a rock ski for bad conditions. They must own all of their own ski tuning equipment which also adds up. The racing suit is very expensive. There is all of the outerwear...jackets, ski pants, fleece, helmet, very good gloves. There are the various sets of poles per event, shin guards and hand guards for slalom and a special padded top for under their clothes. The cost of the ski passes is enormous. My D must have three ski area passes in college and until this year, her senior year, we had to pay (I wonder if the football team had to pay for field time). Then, prior to college there were the race training programs every weekend. Many attend private ski academies which cost as much as college but my D did not but most of her college teammates did. Then, to race, she must pay yearly fees for a license of sorts from the USSA. There are also entry fees for every race. The ski boots for racers are extremely costly and there is professional boot fitting, bindings, plates for under the boot, and so on and so forth. And THEN there is also the travel. In college, we do not pay the travel. However, we travel to see the races. </p>
<p>As far as private lessons....last night, my 19 year old was paid $75/hour to teach a 15 year old jazz/rock piano lesson! She was paid in high school $25/hour to teach a voice lesson privately to children. :eek:</p>
<p>Mammall, I am the least athletic person in the universe, but I could wax on for a long time about the value of the commitment that all my children have shown to their intensely competitive sports--value that is substantially different from those gained by competing in some "inclusive" intramural league But if you don't share that view, I have no problem with that. But you should at least get your facts straight. </p>
<p>"I know the received wisdom is that sports are the ticket to elite schools. I just rarely actually see that happen. </p>
<p>There is no question that sports can be a ticket to an "elite" school; my S is an example. But that is quite beside the point. Even bringing it up is something that would happen only in the CC bubble. I don't know any serious athlete whose primary motivation is to get to HYP etc (although some poor kids see it as a way to pay for college at all). Athletes compete because they love to compete; anything else is an ancillary benefit.</p>
<p>"I do see many, many intelligent students taking partial scholarships to relatively unknown schools in order to keep playing their sport."</p>
<p>This comment is a) snotty and b) shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation. Anyone getting an athletic scholarship is, by definition, good enough to play at least at the DII level. That generally means that (assuming the academics are there) the athlete could play at virtually any DIII school including the high NESCAC's, Wash U. Vassar, NYU, etc., etc., etc. Maybe the athlete needed the money. Maybe he just wanted to compete against a higher level of competition.</p>
<p>I wanted to mention the social benefits of sports (or many of the other EC pursuits). I know some of this doesn't apply to everyone, but my kids grew up in a rural area. You don't go outside here and meet friends to play with. It all must be arranged. My kids were involved from a very young age in ECs....both did sports in all seasons, and both were heavily into several areas of the performing arts (instrumental music, voice, dance and theater). I felt that besides the enrichment value, these were their opportunities for social times with other kids who shared their interests. Rather than just "hanging out", they were engaged in worthwhile endeavors and this was when they could be with other kids socially. It served a purpose. </p>
<p>Now, in college, I see their EC pursuits as one area of their social experience. They have a close knit group to which they belong, be it the ski team, soccer team, a capella group, or theater cast (things my kids happen to do). They have many friends outside their interest areas but there is a special bond socially with their peers who are in these "groups" to which they belong and share a common interest.</p>
<p>Soozie,</p>
<p>I think both of us are talking 5 figures a year in expenses here.</p>
<p>"I think both of us are talking 5 figures a year in expenses here."</p>
<p>Ya know, I can think of hundreds of worse ways to blow money. I look back at the expenses of having my kids play high level soccer and ride equestrian and I know I will never has as high a return on investment from any of my stock funds. </p>
<p>My kids are who they are because I invested some dollars and more importantly my time and support in helping them become better than me. I'm sure when we all look at it, we spent some money, but really what would you do with the money instead?</p>
<p>The advantages of playing a sport are too numerous to mention in one post!
Life is so competitive these days--competitive sports offer great preparation! Self-discipline, time management, mental/physical strength/fitness, socialization, coping with disappointment, teamwork, self-confidence---the benefits of sports/athletics list goes on and on! Many employers find that new hires have difficulty working well with others and achieving a common goal. Surely athletes have an advantage over the nonathlete in this department. Regarding admissions at selective schools, more than one admissions director has spoken of the advantages of athletics! We often read about 'hooks' on CC. An argument can easily be made that sports can be considered a hook--think of all the 3 sport letterman juggled to succeed in academics and athletics!</p>
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Many employers find that new hires have difficulty working well with others and achieving a common goal. Surely athletes have an advantage over the nonathlete in this department.
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<p>I'm seen much to agree with in some of the posts from parents of athletes. But here is where I get very annoyed. No, it is not a given that athletes have an advantage in the "common goal" department over non-athletes.</p>
<p>How much experience do you have with working with a team to build a robot? How about building--as part of a team--Rube Goldberg devices to very specific functional requirements? Have you ever spent several hours as part of a math TEAM, working together to solve complicated problems? Have you ever worked with a team of 75 students to put on a week-long simulation of a NASA space project? Have you ever heard of the TEAMS/JET competition (this is an all-day engineering competition--on the spot real world tasks)? What do you know about Knowledge Master team competitions? How about Science Knowledge Bowl? These are just some of the TEAM activities and competitions my son was involved in, in many cases as team leader/organizer. In every single case, the fate of each and every participant depended on the performance of the other team members. Sometimes they lost, sometimes they won, it was always fun, it was always educational and the experiences definitely taught my kid and all the other kids a whole lot about teamwork, responsibility and friendship.</p>
<p>I don't think it is only the parents of non-athletes who have a limited world-view. After all, my kids played three sports as elementary students, my son even did three team sports in 9th grade. Let's not make too many assumptions about how non-athletes are spending their time, and what valuable lessons they are missing.</p>
<p>As I said, I don't think these benefits are limited to sports. I think many ECs have these benefits. A dance repertory company, a play/musical, a school newspaper, a robotics team, a quiz bowl team, or a sports team, among other EC endeavors, all involve teamwork. These activities have value even if the kid never continues them in college or in life. I believe that colleges do not care so much WHAT activities you have been involved in but more about your contributions, achievements, leadership, collaboration, etc. that comes out of it. You can gain those things from many pursuits. These pursuits have value for youngsters in all that there is to be gained. </p>
<p>What I see in the original post is someone whose child is not in sports kind of poo pooing sports. I don't think sports are better than other EC activities. But just like I can't imagine putting down this or that club or activity, I can't imagine putting down sports. All of these activities can benefit the development of our youth and much is to be gained that translates to all areas of life and work.</p>
<p>Check out the Boston Globe article I posted on the Harvard board about the fullback who is preparing for an operatic career, and currently writing a senior thesis (optional) in English. I think he has sports, arts and academics all covered!</p>
<p>I am a bad sports mother. I got away with never having to sit in the rain at some long game with my first kid, who is not sporty in the slightest. I prefer to sit in a performance hall any day of the week, and I like parents of the arts kids more, in general, than sporty parents.</p>
<p>I never went to a college football game either, and don't feel like I missed out on a thing.</p>
<p>But my comeuppance is upon me with my next child, who happens to be exceptionally gifted athletically. I have endured a number of cold and rainy games, and have to grin and pretend I like it. I like being there because she is playing, but not because I like the games, in the slightest. But I may come around. Time will tell.</p>
<p>kudos to the Harvard fullback. I was also impressed when I heard there is a chemical engineering major playing fullback for my son's school (Div 1). All by itself, engineering is too much for many students. (And they graduated another football player, different position, last year.)</p>
<p>Allmusic, don't tell my daughter, but I did enjoy watching my son's Science Olympiad team competitions and Quiz Bowl meets more than I like getting dust and horse manure blown in my face while watching my daughter jump and ride. Although I do love watching her ride.</p>
<p>Sounds to me like the OP doesn't have an athlete and the OP's son/daughter isn't getting their "pet program" paid for like the athletics do.</p>
<p>Tell me how band or chorus are even remotely similar to athletics?</p>
<p>Competition is just not the same. In football, you aren't graded on your appearance. Or on whether you hit this note or not. Football is real simple-- you have to score more points than the other team. Sounds similar right? Except that in football you have someone trying to prevent you from doing what you want to do! Head-to-Head competition!! Band and chorus do not have it.</p>
<p>Somebody mentioned that athletics could take away from schoolwork, and while there is validity there, that's a pretty broad statement. Maybe it's not everyone's goal to go to Ivy League. I know it sure wasn't mine. And on that note, why is it necessary to take a million and a half AP classes?!? Why not take college classes IN COLLEGE?????</p>
<p>hopsscout....first you say the OP is putting down sports which isn't their pet program (agreed) but then YOU put down band and chorus! Ugh. </p>
<p>For the record, my kid who played three varsity sports in HS, ALSO was in the band and jazz band and Wind Ensemble (not getting into what else she was in). I didn't think one was better than the other. Both were her interests. Both involved big commitments. </p>
<p>By the way, while band may not be competitive in your eyes.....these kids, including my own, competed in adjudicated things like All State Auditions and All State Scholarship Competiions and so forth. Theater kids have to "compete" for casting.</p>
<p>Football is a great game. It's got it all... strategy, strength, speed, endurance, winners, and losers. BUT is it really an appropriate game for the physically immature, especially as new evidence crops up that teenage concussions (very common in football) can lead to later neurological problems? AND is it really appropriate for public schools to be spending such a relatively large portion of their tight budgets on an activity that is restricted to such a small number of students?</p>
<p>Sorry soozievt, wasn't meant to put down the events really; just pointing out the difference.</p>
<p>Even though, I DID hate the band and chorus teachers at my school. And hated nearly all band people. Why? Because they thought they were amazing and that's all we heard about.</p>
<p>If the band would have a Saturday competition, Monday morning in the announcements it would tell how great they were. Grand this, 1st place this, etc. Well you better win the da#n thing if you're the ONLY ONE in the particular section of the event!! Or the fact that those band competitions would give out 6 first place trophies because each band scored a certain number of points on the subjective scoring rubric. Tuesday and Wednesday mornings were much the same. Meanwhile it was rare to be told whether a sports team won or not.</p>
<p>So sophomore year of high school I guess our winter guard team went to a state competition. They "won State!" Again, I would hope so considering they were the ONLY team from their classfication that was there!!! And we heard about that one for 3 months!!!!!!!!</p>