<p>Well, 4yorkshiremen’s older posts clearly show she and her daughter loved SAS at some point, so I don’t think it’s merely a proofless, personal attack against the school.</p>
<p>Big BS community where I come from. Friends have children in various schools. Andover, Kent, Choate, Hotchkiss, SAS, Deerfield, etc.
From the stories I’ve heard, every now and again, a boarding school will just have a bad batch of kids. It can happen. One of the schools one year got rid of a bunch of kids who were dealing in drugs - hiding the stuff in the dry wall. So, for whatever reasons, it happens at EVERY school to some degree. Some years are just really bad.</p>
<p>Although this deals with NYC private day schools, think this is the issue we’re talking around:</p>
<p><a href=“At Private Schools, the Risk of Being ‘Counseled Out’ - The New York Times”>At Private Schools, the Risk of Being ‘Counseled Out’ - The New York Times;
<p>Because they are private schools, families don’t necessarily have a lot of recourse.</p>
<p>Don’t you just love cc? So many mysteries have been dymistified because of it. At the end of day, surprise! Private schools, day or boarding, big or small, big names or “hidden gems” operate essentially the same way after all. So, relax all. Wherever you are, you are not missing much from the other side of the fence. And enjoy the big show!</p>
<p>Interesting to hear all the SAS discussion which based on my observations is way off base. Based on a good source the attrition of the current Form III class is either 0 or 1 student out of 66 admitted. I know several students who are attending, are doing very well albeit challenged and who absolutely love the school.</p>
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<p>She also asked about hazing and bullying at SAS prior to acceptance. </p>
<p>EOS> If your child was performing academically and had no discpline issues, do you think it might be a little personal if she was kicked out? Say after 3 years of intense effort on your kid’s part and say $150,000 on yours? No, nothing personal. Just counseled out for no apparent reason. As the NYTimes acticle suggests, maybe the SAT or overall performance was not high enough and the school is guarding their college matriculation data. Or, maybe the OP is just launching an unsupported attack on SAS?</p>
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<p>Personal, yes. Of course. But that doesn’t make it “unsupported.” As EnemyOfTheSun pointed out (after actually taking the time to research 4yorkshire’s prior posts!), 4yorkshire and her daughter were previously quite happy with SAS. Something happened to change that. She declined to provide details, but suggested that prospective parents approach SAS with caution. If, as she stated, SAS is losing a dozen kids a year, that might be cause for concern . . . and it should also be easy enough to verify.</p>
<p>There is nothing in 4yorkshire’s posts, however, to suggest that she is lying or, as you put it, “launching an unsupported attack on SAS.” And it is utter nonsense to suggest that SAS (or any of the other much-discussed schools on this forum) can “do no wrong.” We’ve heard reports time and again of schools bungling their handling of reported misconduct. No school is immune to making such mistakes.</p>
<p>The only “unsupported attacks” I’ve seen in this thread are those launched against 4yorkshiremen. Enough, already! SAS is clearly well-loved by many of its families. No one is saying otherwise. And it may not be perfect. So what? Don’t shoot the messenger.</p>
<p>@Weatherby: 4yourshiremen pm’d me an explanation after I requested, so it may be of your interest to send her a private message. I think she will reply.</p>
<p>Dodgersmom> I never said the OP was lying nor did I suggest SAS could do no wrong, her statement is unsupported in my mind because she provides no examples or details of the dozens of expulsions. A few reasons or examples would be helpful. On the other hand, I have received PMs from other SAS parents indicating that there have been maybe one such expulsion and one other incident involving a class officer being removed from his/her role.</p>
<p>You can’t shoot the messenger until they deliver a real message. :)</p>
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<p>As already suggested, if you are genuinely concerned, you can contact 4yorkshiremen directly. But I, for one, do not think it unreasonable that a parent would decline to provide “examples or details” regarding specific incidents in a public forum. Although statistical data regarding student attrition should be publicly available, the details regarding such incidents are and should be confidential.</p>
<p>What a lot of heat and very little light. </p>
<p>One or two kids, I get. A dining room table’s worth of kids a year seems extreme and, if such mass departures occur (school induced or otherwise) regularly, especially with a school that has fewer than 300 students, that would be a huge problem. I can’t believe it’s a common attrition scenario at SAS. But maybe I’m just a mindless booster.</p>
<p>I do think asking a school about attrition is very important as it’s usually a good indicator of how well the admission’s team is matching the candidates to the environment.</p>
<p>Dodgersmom> Nobody asked Yorkshire to provide specific details about her child’s expulsion. It was her statement that whole dining tables or more than a dozen students are being asked to leave every year.</p>
<p>So, exactly how does one ask the school whether they are shredding a dozen kids a year…for reasons not related to academic performance or behaviour? Yep, that sounds like a reasonable line of inquiry.</p>
<p>@Weatherby: In Dodgersmom’s defense, I think one could easily interpret the following as a request for details (though I think it was asked without the intent of malicious provocation):</p>
<p>“Why don’t you share more of your story?” (from post #125)</p>
<hr>
<p>As perhaps the most active SAS superfan currently on the forum, I have watched this thread unfold and been hesitant to jump in. </p>
<p>But here are two things that have been on my mind:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>I am confident the massive attrition for a specific class-year that has been mentioned above is NOT a common occurrence at SAS.</p></li>
<li><p>This is not to invalidate the experiences and concerns of other SAS parents (present, former, or future)…when I take my crimson-colored glasses off, I am aware that all schools have up and down years when it comes to attrition (and for that matter, NMQs, matrics at “name brand” colleges, and DCs). I believe that 4yorkshiremen’s daughter’s experience happened in an exceptionally “down” year, and the percentages get amplified due to the small size of the school.</p></li>
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<p>Thanks for chiming in, SevenDad - that’s good to hear!</p>
<p>Anybody that knows Mr. Roach and the atmosphere he has created at St. Andrew’s has to view portions of this thread with some skepticism! Certainly students sometimes leave boarding schools but from all I have seen St. Andrew’s is very concerned about the personal, social, spiritual and academic welfare of each and every student. Sure it’s a rigorous school and not for everyone but I cannot, in wildest dreams, ever imagine the St. Andrew’s administration asking a student to leave without substantial cause related to academic, disciplinary or some other very very unique situation. I have the greatest confidence that what ever occurred was handled in the most sensitive and appropriate manner for all concerned.</p>
<p>bonehead, I hope you can tell that I am not <em>against</em> SAS (just not a stakeholder in any way), but you speak like a spokeperson for the school.
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<p>In case you didn’t notice, a current parent (wittyone) raised the attrition issue first. 4york was just “nodding along” by referring to her child’s experience years before. From Wittyone:
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<p>Instead of defending the school with your words, why not suggest SAS be more open about school affairs. I don’t think people even know SAS’s true admit rate. Someone said earlier they intentionally withheld that info to “save others feelings” (or something to that effect)?</p>
<p>For the past few months I’ve been lurking as really too busy to get wrapped up in CC but you’ve gotten my attention. Since I started this thread and currently have a Junior at SAS, I thought I would comment. Please, I am not looking for a debate, following is just from my perspective as a current SAS parent.</p>
<p>National Merit, personally, could care less although my son was upset he did not qualify, for about an hour. Took the SAT once and did just fine then elected to take it again the other weekend to see if he can max out. </p>
<p>SAS Scuttlebutt that I know: In the past 3 years there have been 2 pot busts (freshman & new sophomore) and no alcohol issues. There have been expulsions for serious offenses from cheating to harassing. A total of two expulsion thus far this year. There have been several stupid and silly incidents by new students nothing which warranted expulsions from roasted ground hog to pranks not so funny. I can assure you that a dozen kids were not let go, dismissed or just simply left in one year. The students that have left were personal issues from anorexia, depression and other stuff but not necessarily academics or “school” discipline issues and mostly on their own accord. The issue this year with the Senior class President was simply sneaking out of the dorm, not to do D&A or meet a girl, just to do it. More teenager idiocy at it’s finest. He lost his presidency and rightfully so. That’s about it for 3 years, not bad compared to many other boarding schools. As for probation, that can be for many different things. I was on probation practically my entire high school career and I doubt half the faculty even knew.</p>
<p>Sports at all these schools is a roller coaster.<br>
Football 7-2 / Cross Country 4-2 / Field Hockey 1-14 (not so good) 6-7-2 year before / Boy’s Soccer 14-1-1 / Girls Soccer 7-7
Boy’s BB 12-2 / Girls BB 11-5 / Boy’s Squash 9-3 / Girl’s Squash 4-11-1 / Swimming 6-2 / Wrestling 4-5
The Winter season is not over and its all going to get better.
Crew was in a league all by itself last Spring.</p>
<p>Community Service:
Almost too much at SAS. My son spends hours with other SAS students in town tutoring, participates in soup kitchens and to Nicaragua Spring break to work off the trail in community development projects. Of course none of the above he has to do, it’s all elective and there are multiple community service projects offered that are clearly mentioned on the school’s website.</p>
<p>St Andrew’s, like most boarding schools, offers many opportunities to their students to participate with what the school has to offer. A major part of any admission process is to determine whether or not the prospective student is going to contribute to the school environment, be a functioning member of the community while keeping up with the academic challenges. The school website states “This past year 459 students applied and 82 new students enrolled.” I don’t know how many were actually accepted.</p>
<p>My son proudly tells me that they have not had any DC issues with his class since arriving freshmen year and that his classmates want to keep it that way. He admits it’s really tough academically but his Mom and I believe that is what gives him the drive to succeed. It’s all good and the school is far from wearing off on him or us. He still thinks it’s awesome and the school thinks he’s pretty cool too, so do I and that’s all that counts</p>
<p>SAS admit % is clearly posted in numerous locations including Boarding School Review. It’s 29-30% with a yield of 61% which jives with the numbers they post on their website. “An probably more that I haven’t heard about” is mere speculation. I could go on and on. I stand by my earlier post and I have no affiliation with the school. When posting think about this: Is it the TRUTH? Is it FAIR to all concerned? Will it build GOOD WILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS? Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned. If your post can’t pass that test keep it to yourself.</p>
<p>ops - </p>
<p>Thank you for coming back to contribute to this discussion. Your comments are much appreciated!</p>
<p>Video from SAS’s recent defeat of #1 Sanford. Fast forward to the 29 minute mark to catch the end of come from behind win. Amusing commentary (love the part about one player’s great exam essay) and good look at part of new Sipprelle fieldhouse.</p>
<p>[2nd</a> Half of St. Andrew’s School (DE) vs. Sanford 2/18/12 at 3:13 PM EST, Recorded live on my iPhone on 2/18/12 at 3:13 PM EST SASDelawareGoSaints on USTREA…](<a href=“http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/20536468]2nd”>http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/20536468)</p>