St. John's College

<p>Has anyone heard of this school? I was searching for schools similar to the University of Chicago and I found this gem. I know that it is seminar-intensive and so on and so forth and I have looked at its curriculum, watched the .avi's on the website, and called the Admissions Office... I was just wondering what any of your experiences has been with this school. </p>

<p>I've found that the learning philosophies between U of C and St. John's to be similar. I find U of C to be more ideal in that it has the same idea of a core curriculum just not that it's ONLY a core curriculum. U of C seems to combine the best attributes of St. John's with the best attributes of a major research university with its availability of resources, courses offered, its tinges or hints of even being SLIGHTLY pre-professional (if you so desired), while being intellectual and rigorous and possibly most importantly, thorough.</p>

<p>What do you think?</p>

<p>I'm actually going to st john's college (annapolis) this fall. It's an incredible school. It does have close ties to U of C since the same two education reformers designed both great book programs. The all required core curriculum creates a really close-knit feel among the students (since they all can relate to eachother through the program) and professors. It causes the texts and ideas that are discussed in class to become integrated into the social life and relationships. -derek</p>

<p>I would be cautious about St. John's, depending on your area of interest and post-graduation plans. For pre-law, for example, it would certainly be a reasonable choice. For a person interested in biochemistry or classics for grad school, it isn't the best choice.</p>

<p>My D's boyfriend is a current freshman there and loves it. Then again, he is big into reading, and that is what St. Johns is all about. No merit aid given; great location. Tiny school, only 400 total in all four years.</p>

<p>There are actually two of them, you know. One in Annapolis, the other in Santa Fe. You can swap campuses, as I recall.</p>

<p>It's around 450-500 per campus. You can't beat the student to faculty ratio. Also, many graduates go onto earn PhDs in the sciences, MDs, etc. Look at this <a href="http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>What did you think of the campus when you visited, Derek? How were the seminars? What did you think about math/sciences? Have you compared this school to Chicago? I've read in old threads on CC about SJC and math/science classes -- I believe professors were willing to adopt the Oxford tutor model if specific students wanted to advance their math/sciences knowledge. What do you think about that? </p>

<p>Thanks for all of your help, advice, and information guys. I appreciate it. :)</p>

<p>A lot of students seem to be between Chicago and St. John's. For me, I wanted a school that had more people, activities, and resources than a school like St. Johns (I actually considered no LAC's when I looked at schools, and Chicago was BY FAR the smallest school I considered, so I was definitely not a candidate for St. John's!). I was also more ivy-conscious at the time and wasn't willing to tolerate the inevitability that people would confuse St. John's College with St. John's University, a sports school in New York City.</p>

<p>The students who chose St. John's over Chicago, though, chose it because they wanted a college experience so removed from the standard fare. As it stands, Chicago is great-books esque, and the Chicago and St. John's reading lists are quite similar (especially if you take Chicago's History and Philosophy of Science courses), but Chicago, outside of the core, is similar to other schools.</p>

<p>I absolutely cannot think of a better classroom environment. The seminars consist of about 15 students and two professors (tutors) sitting around the table. Everyone contributed to the conversation (nobody was obnoxious). The tutors basically fostered the discussion and redirected it every now and then if it got off course. The seminar I atteded covered a passage from Metaphysics. I read the passage ahead of time and was not surprised to find it incredibly dense out of context. The discussion really brought the passage to life. I didn't attend a lab class, but I did attend a freshman math tutorial. The class is structured about the same as the seminar (except with one tutor). It seems as though st john's cares first and foremost about the philosophy behind the math. The greater part of freshman year is supposedly focused on proofs and learning propositions. Of course the math gets harder as you learn the modern concepts. I've heard that as students move towards graduation, math tutorial, lab, language tutorial, and seminar really become interconnected in a magical way. The campus and surrounding area is very charming (albeit small) and the students and professors were all friendly. I found this campus visit report on another site. It rang true for me- <a href="http://www.*******.com/thread.php?thread_id=89438&mc=34&forum_id=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.*******.com/thread.php?thread_id=89438&mc=34&forum_id=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>okay, apparently that link isn't going to work. I actually posted the same report on college confidential in the campus visit section. Just look under st john's college.</p>

<p>Wonderful... I enjoyed reading the cited passage. Thank you. :)</p>

<p>Also, Derek, did you choose your campus (Santa Fe vs. Annapolis) after you were accepted?</p>

<p>Yes. Acceptance to either campus means acceptance to both campuses. After I was accepted I sent in my deposit and indicated that I wished to enroll at annapolis. You can transfer freely between campuses (for a year at a time).</p>

<p>I'm applying to U Chicago and I was seriously considering St. John's for quite some time. In the end, the restrictive curriculum and my plans to continue in the sciences killed it for me. I know already that I enjoy seminar-style learning and that I can learn well from it, but I'm not sure I'd want it to be just that for four years. I'd also like more options in the curriculum. St. John's curriculum is a great thing--it's just not for me. </p>

<p>Note: You can go onto the sciences from St. John's. My good friends parents are both alums of St. John's, and they're currently Physicists at the Naval Research Lab. </p>

<p>I actually went to one of the info sessions this fall and met with students, the dean of admissions, and some of the tutors. They all seemed to be very nice and intelligent people. I just don't think I could be happy with that for four years, so I'm looking elsewhere.</p>

<p>
[quote]
You can go onto the sciences from St. John's.

[/quote]
I'm sure you can, but you would be at a disadvantage: the lack of specialized science and lab courses at St. John's means that you will have to pursue additional undergraduate-level study somewhere else, either before or after being admitted to graduate school. </p>

<p>For example, you can't realistically apply for medical school without organic chemistry, which does not appear to be offered by either St. John's campus. I've heard that many St. John's grads enroll in "post-bac" programs at other schools to address this deficiency. That's a valid approach, but it may significantly increase your investment, in terms of both time and money, for your undergraduate education. </p>

<p>If you did manage to get admitted to a science grad program with a St. John's degree alone, it would likely be on a conditional basis, which would require you to "make up" undergraduate-level courses as a grad student. Again, this is a valid approach, but your chances of admission will be lower and your time to the advanced degree will be longer than if you had a conventional science BA/BS.</p>

<p>Yeah... that's why I felt UChicago was so much more attractive.</p>

<p>I suppose both schools have their negatives. I certainly would never want to go to a school with T.A.s and preoccupied professors.</p>

<p>Corbett makes good points. Those were all defininitely factors in my decision to look elsewhere.</p>

<p>I was seriously considering St. John's College and it was (and still is, in my heart) my first choice. I've been resolved for months in the fact that I will not be attending this fall, much to my dismay. The atmosphere at St. John's suits me very well and I fell in love with the school and the campus but it just wasn't meant to be. My parents aren't willing to pay sticker price when I've been offered several merit scholarships from various other schools. I do wish I could attend St. John's, though, but I'm okay with it now.</p>

<p>I also was between U Chicago and St. John's. I did not apply to U Chicago, in the end, however. Part of the reason was because U Chicago, petty as it may sound, was too close to home for me (it's less than an hour away from where I live) and I'm determined to go out of state. Mostly, though, in the end I could not see myself at that school, sorry to say.</p>

<p>St. John's is amazing. I wish that I could attend but I suppose things have a way of working themselves out. GL, future Johnnies!</p>

<p>If I had my life to do over again, I would attend St. John's. </p>

<p>It is what education is supposed to be about. And, while students surely won't believe me, it replicates the dynamic in the places I've worked in my career far better than the big schools I attended. </p>

<p>When I found out about St. John's (15 years after I earned my B.A.) I was angry - that's angry - that I settled for 500-person lectures and foreign T.A.s.</p>