Sometimes a year of maturity is all it takes and knowing what the process is all about. Many kids take a gap year and do this process again and have HUGE success.
@collegemom2000 We used MTCA for my S this year and I honestly don’t know what we would’ve done without them. They guided us on every aspect of this process. I think the connection to your coach is very important and my S was able to make very personal connections to all of his MTCA coaches. MTCA’s services are ala carte and I believe they do have a minimum number of coaching sessions which makes it more affordable and allows you to choose the services your D wants/needs most. If you have any questions please PM me. Good luck on your journey!
We didn’t use a coach - and if I were to do the process all over again there are things I would do differently - but I would not have a coach. I don’t know what it is, I am a teacher, so have strong respect for someone who Guides through a process, and I have read countless stories of people who’s opinions and journeys I rescued the form this site, but I cannot fathom hiring one. We read “I got in” at the start of D’s senior year (based on the recommendation of people on CC) and I had an almost viscerally negative reaction to the whole concept. Can’t explain it. Makes me an oddity on this forum- but that’s ok- I’m an oddity in real life too
Even the coaches would tell you that coaching is absolutely a personal decision and a financial decision each family must make for themselves. I’ve seen kids do well with and without coaching and there are so many variables it’s hard to point to which factors made the difference. I know for us, coaching was invaluable. I can also venture that for some families that are well-versed in the theatre world or who come from PA HS backgrounds, or for extraordinarily talented students, that coaching might be unnecessary. Everyone must decide for themselves. Coaching is also a two way street – the coach provides materials and direction and the student must be open to those materials and direction. Certainly there can be the rare instance of a mismatch, but I think the main coaches and coaching organizations referred to here on the reg have pretty darn good track records. Also, I hear the “cookie cutter” thing a lot, but I think that’s a broad generalization. I think MT kids across all the coaching groups that I see in person, and online/on social media are different heights, weights, ethnicities, types, abilities, etc. If you can go it without a coach and be successful, go for it – this is an expensive enough process at it is, but for those who need extra direction, support or resources it can be a tremendous help. Break a leg!
Thank you. Yes, the financial aspect leaves me cold, particularly when I know what we are likely facing in terms of tuition alone (not to mention travel, college app fees, etc.) I agree about the year of maturity as well…definitely could work in someone’s favor. And maybe that is all it took for our friend to get into college…may not have been the coach at all, just a year in the real world.
For the sake of full disclosure, I spent two years at performing arts school myself (many, many years ago.) All you needed then was a monologue to get in. Now so much seems to depend on things you cannot control, like your looks and your ethnic background. Crazy!
@collegemom2000 - I agree with @IfYouOnlyKnew - every family needs to approach this process in the way that works best for them. There is no right or wrong way.
I am sorry to hear your friends didn’t have a good experience. We used Mary Anna and have referred her to a number of people since then. All of us have had good experiences and results with her.
I think one of the things that makes a coach effective is if they tell you like it is. Mary Anna will tell you if she doesn’t think a school is a good fit for you, or if a monologue choice isn’t working, etc… And some people will disagree or take offense. But a coach’s opinion is what you hire them for. For us we always found Mary Anna to be kind and concerned and considerate - always available. Organized. Very professional.
I am glad your friend’s S eventually found the right school for him. I do think most people taking a gap year are more successful the following year in the audition process. Not all - but most. Typically they change their school list to have more safety and fit schools while still going after reaches as well. They also have had a year to understand how the auditions work, really find material they connect with, etc… So it does not surprise me your friend would do better the second time around, coach or no coach.
For those contemplating coaching, I will say that We had no issues working over Skype. It worked quite well. Many coaches work via Skype. Not a problem. That’s not to say in-person lessons wouldn’t be more desirable. But when there isn’t someone nearby and you can’t afford to fly to where the best are, Skype is a great substitute.
Our D had done MT for a number of years before applying to college- but nobody in our community really understood the college audition process. Perhaps you are lucky that you have people more well versed in it in your neck of the woods. But for us, it was very much a help to have a coach to walk us through the process, help select schools and materials and help during decision making time. There was absolutely nobody in our community who understood the process and its competitive nature.
To each his own, but we found using a coach invaluable. And as someone else said earlier, it alleviated a lot of stress.
I do think people need to use a coach with eyes wide open. No coach can guarantee results. So if you are talking to one and they are promising they can get you in a certain number of programs or in to certain schools, I would run far away. No respected coach would ever tell you that. All they can do is help prepare you for the process. They are not in place of a voice teacher, a dance teacher or an acting teacher. They are solely there to help you put your best foot forward in auditions in all phases. By choosing a school list that makes sense for you. By choosing material that suits you. By coaching the material so you present it in the best way you can. By helping you evaluate the choices you have once auditions are over. That is what a coach does.
It is possible to spend money on coaching and not get the results you hoped for. That all depends on the year, the student, how their auditions go, what the schools are looking for that particular year and how your student fits their needs, etc… And sometimes it depends on if the student heeded the coach’s advice. Sometimes they choose not to – and sometimes that works, but often times, they probably should have listened more to their coach. And also, someone can do everything their coach says and still not get the results they want. In the end, auditions are subjective. Our kids are subject to someone else’s opinion. There is nothing any of us can do about that.
Additionally, I must say I really am tired of hearing that coaches produce cookie-cutter kids. I don’t know any coach who recommends you be a duplicate of someone else. Mary Anna certainly does not. My D’s year, Moo Crew had kids of all shapes, sizes, genders, ethnicities, sexual orientations, from all regions of the country. Not one of them looked or sounded like another. They dressed differently. They performed differently Their school lists were different. And their final choices were different. Yes there were several girls in solid color dresses. But there were also girls in pants. And print dresses and lace dresses. Some wore heels. Some wore boots. Some wore flats. There were boys in dress shirt and tie. Boys in jeans. Boys in vests. Boys in sweaters. They were not all alike. But I’m sure they all heeded her advice to keep their hair out of their face so the auditors could see their expressions. To be neat and clean in their appearance. And Yes, they pal around together at Unifieds. This is one of the benefits of coaching You meet kids who share your passion. D has friends now at just about every MT school you can think of. This network will continue to serve them well as they start their professional careers. And parents will find they appreciate the support and camaraderie of their fellow parents as well.
Didn’t mean to get on a long rant. I do think coaching is a very personal decision. Some will do well in the process without it. For us, we are glad we worked with Moo. If you are contemplating coaching, I would talk to several and see who you best connect with. Just like no one school is right for all students, no one coach is right for all students. Find the one that is right for you.
Best wishes to all those just beginning to prepare for next year’s auditions. It is going to be a crazy, fun year. Wishing you much success however you choose to approach it!
The subject of coaching comes up every year on the forum. Here are some of the more recent threads on this topic:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1939074-do-i-really-need-a-coach-p1.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1772238-coaches-p1.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1577077-not-using-a-coach-p1.html
If you use the “Search” function you can find more.
My d attended an excellent public PA HS and certainly didn’t “need” to hire a coach - they did two, full, six-week terms solely on audition prep in her Junior year including monologue and song selection, individual work with a successful professional actor, reviews with all faculty members, formal mock auditions with a panel of former MT college faculty members, video taped auditions, held Master Classes with current MT department heads and faculty (Lara Teeter from Webster, Raymond Sage from Penn State, and Kaitlin Hopkins from Texas State), took her entire class to the International Thespian Festival in June specifically to audition for colleges, hosted a college fair each year with all the top programs in attendance, hosted a major regional audition with about 50 colleges in attendance, sent two teachers with them to Unifieds in Chicago, etc. They also spent a lot of time lecturing the students on the college audition process, worked with them on preparing college applications, went over lists of schools, etc.
However, for students auditioning for competitive musical theatre programs, her department head recommended using a coach, and Mary Anna Dennard was one of her recommendations. As she put it, “Auditioning for Musical Theatre is nuts. I can’t even begin to describe how competitive it is. A coach can really help.” This from someone with more than 20 years of theatre teaching experience, whose students every year get into top MT and Acting programs including Julliard, CMU, Purchase, UNCSA, Michigan, CCM, Northwestern, BU, Mason Gross, Guthrie, CalArts, etc.
My d used Mary Anna and really enjoyed working with her via Skype (and two face-to-face sessions in Dallas). Mary Anna help her find monologues that she liked better than the ones from her work at school, increased her confidence, gave her some great advice on specific schools, had a great set of online tools and videos, etc.
The total cost, including auditioning for 13 programs at “Moonifieds” was not much more than the cost to fly and stay overnight at one on-campus audition (about $1,500 - at least one one-campus audition required a two-night stay).
Completely random question - when did MTCA, Moo and others get started coaching? As we lament how much more competitive the BFA college process (esp in MT) has become, esp in the last 10 years, or 5 years- is there any chicken/egg? Coaches helped students become more competitive, so the process became more competitive?
@toowonderful excellent question!
Before we began this journey, as I watched older students we knew go down this path, I thought the whole coaching thing was ridiculous, a huge money-making scam and even said out loud that if students couldn’t get into programs without a coach, they didn’t belong in the program.
How quickly I ate all those words. We live in a large metro area where we see probably at least a half dozen kids go through this process every year. We have lots of arts teachers, consultants, and resources available and people all around us that work in theater. Yet, I am advising all current juniors - sure, hire your team of local voice teachers, dance instructors and acting coaches, but find a national coach to pilot the ship.
This whole process is crazy, insane, competitive, heartbreaking, illogical and what a national coach did for us was keep it from being overwhelming and serve as a constant well of information. We found that no one locally, other than perhaps the parents who went through this in the last three years, had any idea how competitive the field would be. As others have said, run, run far away from anyone who tells you your child will get in everywhere or will have no problems getting into lots of schools (unless your child is a Young Arts winner, then maybe you can exhale a little).
The national coaches know what’s going on in the college theater programs in a way that your local resources just can’t. One change in administration or program director and the program can change drastically. Through their contacts at the colleges and their relationships with students and parents they’ve already placed, they are privy to a vast amount of information that helps current clients choose schools that will be a good fit and potentially give clients an idea of what various schools are looking for.
It was that information - which led to defining the school list and having an idea of what to expect in the auditions, plus the wealth of information on the process start to finish that made having a national coach so valuable to us. And I absolutely mean start to finish; from the reminders that started last July when Common App was up and ready to go to the reminders that came in this week about making final decisions - and every step in between.
The cookie cutter comments make me laugh. Some only use their national coach for an hour or two of monologue or song work and that’s it - compared to many, many hours spent working on the material on their own or with other teachers. My child worked with Moo, I sat in on many Master Classes, and the only thing that he had in common with her other clients was perhaps the speed at which they all put their thank you notes in the mail.
And I also agree with the cost comments from above: our total money spent on coaching was way less than what we would have spent going to a second Unifieds or going to more schools to audition on campus, which we didn’t have to do because of Moonifieds.
Finally, coaches are not agents. They aren’t parading their clients in front of schools, pushing some clients on some schools or anything like that. I get the feeling that people think that sometimes, and that’s what adds to the dirty feeling about this little cottage industry. They are simply experts in this field, and an incredibly helpful resource to the parents and students that use them.
I would be fine with the coaching on an ala carte basis at a reasonable price. I spoke to one coach who is $180/session and REQUIRES weekly sessions from May through February…hence my skepticism. That’s a big chunk of cash that could be spent on college tuition, imo, or a car. Mind you, I am open to both sides, however, my daughter does not want to hire anyone after the rant her vocal teacher went on about scams, etc.
Can anyone suggest a coach who would be willing to advise primarily on college and monologue choices? I really don’t see the need for weekly sessions and we are not willing to travel anyplace.
And I suppose one other question I have (thanks for tolerating my ignorance on all this), how much does “not getting in” depend upon grades? Are there any statistics on kids who were accepted academically but not artistically? I’m pretty sure my daughter could get into any of her choices academically, it’s the artistic side that is the wild card. Thanks!
@collegemom2000 I’d say most of the “not getting in” discussed here based on artistic rejections, not academic ones. Some of the colleges are more academically competitive, but none of that is nearly at the level of the artistic competitiveness - except maybe Yale.
I don’t have a coach suggestion, but count me in as another mom who didn’t think a coach was necessary who now wishes we’d had one - at least for monologue and song selection.
Last year Mary Anna had a monologue package that was just designed for picking and preparing monologues. I don’t see it on her website right now, but you could contact her and ask if it is a possibility.
@EmsDad is our king of statistics. Perhaps he could answer that precisely. But in our observations, for most schools, academics did not play a big part in acceptance. There are some schools where it matters more (for example Northwestern and NYU). Somewhere there was a list of MT schools divided by academic selectivity. I’ll see if I can find it. But it seemed most schools cared more about what you did in your audition as long as you met whatever their minimum academic requirements were.
Wow, @vvnstar . Amazing post #45
@collegemom2000 how much academics play into it depends on the school. Mine is a kid who had the opposite problem of most people - he received artistic acceptances, but had trouble being academically accepted due to grades. We knew that would be a problem going in, so he primarily applied to programs that focus on the artistic acceptance (in his case these were generally conservatories). The 2 schools that had more specific academic requirements accepted him artistically but not academically. They also happen to be the state schools he applied to.
I think it is worth keeping in mind that some students live in rural areas where resources are scarce or non-existent. Skype support can be a lifeline, not to mention the support to be found from the CC “family”.
Traveling is not really an option for us, which I think is probably going to play into auditioning as well. I can take local day trips but no airline or multiple overnight travel is possible for us due to a health situation with my son. We live in a major metropolitan area with an enormous arts scene, I imagine there could be someone local and perhaps less costly. I’m open to Skype, and glad to hear others have found this method to be effective.
This is wonderful information for those preparing for next year. I have decided to add in our approach (no professional college audition coach) to the mix of considerations. I am not for or against it…it is what it is and the student and parents need to figure out what is the best approach for them. I feel that it is a personal and individual journey,and one that is not for the faint of heart.
My daughter did not want a coach. She felt very strongly that she needed to own as much of this process as possible. She said that she needed to research the schools, pay for as much as she could, fill out her applications, write her own essays, select her own audition material, and choose her own clothes. She was very aware of what she was getting in to and how stiff the competition would be. She was also aware of the fact that many of the other students had unlimited resources, had attended the workshops, master classes, camps, and were already very connected. She didn’t care…this was her journey and she would take the knocks as they came and embrace the triumphs as her own, My job was to be supportive…oh yeah, and help with the scheduling of auditions/travel plans while she prepared her material.
Sure, I read all I could on CC over the past few years as a lurker. We also have close friends whose kids have been through the process that we followed closely and listened to their experiences over the past several years. We weren’t completely in the dark and we weren’t naive about how very competitive it is. Our hope was that she would get one acceptance out of the bunch…two would be a bonus as it would give her options. Each school she applied to was one that she had researched enough to know that if that was her one choice, she would attend. That was our practical thinking going into this with such daunting statistics. What we didn’t realize initially heading into the process, was how much my daughter would learn about herself and grow from this experience. As the season went on, she really began to get a true understanding of what she will need from a program to ensure that she will grow as a person as well as an artist. She auditioned for fantastic programs that she would have decided not to attend if offered, because they just weren’t quite the right fit for her. We didn’t anticipate that. Honestly, you are thinking that with these odds. please SOMEONE take me. There really is much more to it than that.
All that being said, it was a difficult process, overwhelming, time consuming, with many mistakes made along with good choices. And we had a parent child experience like no other. I watched my beautiful, talented, driven, hard working theatre kid embrace her future head on and grow into a strong young woman. She would tell me that she needed to do this, that it will always be up to her to face these obstacles in her future because this is who she is and what she does. She needs to learn how to make good audition choices and how to deal with people and rejection. There will be many more “no’s” in her future with few “yes’s” and that is ok with her. She never doubted herself as a person or as an artist, and was very prepared for a gap year if that is what it would take for her to be able to study. This is not a contest where you win a golden ticket at the end. It is a journey and you take the knocks and seek out the triumphs…and celebrate that your unique chosen path in life isn’t for everyone, but it is for you.
I don’t think having a college audition coach is bad and don’t get the whole “cookie cutter” thinking. I believe that if you need these resources that are available and can afford them, go for it. The master classes I am sure are great learning experiences if you can afford them…so are the expensive camps. The people who teach them are some of the people who will be in the college audition room and will then be familiar with your child when the time comes. It is not impossible to get in without it, though. I am a single mom with a debilitating disease who has pushed to the very limit to work full time and raise my daughter to be a compassionate, kind, and strong young woman. She has known from the time she was very little that this is who she is and what path she will follow…and I have supported her. She has been making choices such as giving up cable TV at age 8 in order to pay for voice lessons, missing social events because of performance opportunities or rehearsals, and learning as much as she could on her own and from those around her. She has told me many times that all she needs is a safe place to live, food on the table, love and support, and opportunity to grow and she will be able to make her life work her passion.
Was our approach the more difficult one, in some ways yes…but her vision was clear and she wasn’t afraid to do the work necessary. She chose to do a paid show that ran from August until late November because she wanted to pay for as much of this process as possible. I wanted to scream…you dont have time for it! How are we going to get everything in on time! WHY?! Then I took a deep breath and told her, " You are 17 years old and you are willing to “own” your future…you will be successful, I know this". She also refused to apply to a safety school or anywhere that she didn’t feel she could learn what she felt she needed to. If that means a redo next year, so be it. She applied to 15 BFA MT programs, and auditioned for 10. She cancelled 3 auditions and didn’t pass prescreens for 2. Out of the ten she auditioned for, she was accepted to 3 and waitlisted to one. Honestly a miracle…she will be attending a school she absolutely loves and learning from people who really care. And the icing on the cake? Debt free!
Sorry this was so long, but I felt I had to add our story to the mix for all of those out there who are heading into this process. It is easy to get caught up in all the hype of how to help your child. I have learned that letting her grow was the most important piece of the puzzle. She learned to trust and believe in herself. She got to celebrate her own accomplishments and she learned to deal with the disappointments…there are many of both. Wishing the very best of luck to all!