<p>The newspaper story said there were "items found in Zhou's car that were consistent with a suicide, but have declined to identify those items" and that they were "obtaining samples for toxicology tests, which generally take three to four weeks to process." I was thinking that perhaps this means they found drugs or other toxic substances that she might have intentionally ingested in the car, and that they were waiting for the results of the toxicology tests to see if high levels of these are in her body.</p>
<p>Less than an hour before she found her son's suicide note, Camilla Barry was laughing with him over lunch.</p>
<p>It was a rare Monday afternoon when Clive Barry, 16, had the day off from Tamalpais High School in Mill Valley, and his mother was home from work to eat and take a nap. Clive talked about how much he respected his father. They made plans to hang out later in the afternoon."</p>
<p>Whether this incident as a suicide or not, we will not know for awhile</p>
<p>But the topic has been raised, and as such as parents of young people we should be aware. From the article:</p>
<p>Clinical psychologist and author Madeline Levine, who has been in practice in Marin County for 25 years, said she increasingly sees teens who are stressed, depressed and still flying under the radar because they look good on the outside.</p>
<p>"There is a kind of kid now with this relentless kind of perfection," said Levine, who recently wrote "The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids."</p>
<p>What we need to do is let our kids know we will love them no matter what...and they can't talk to us, they can should talk to someone if they feel pressured and feel like they are sinking....</p>
<p>Depression is an illness, but usually something will trigger the suicide or suicide attempt, something that pushes them over the edge, it may be small, at least in our eyes, but to a young person can seem huge.</p>
<p>To not be aware that there is often a life event that triggers a person to make that final, sad and deadly decision is not paying attention.</p>
<p>"It's not appropriate to attribute a person's particular life circumstances or family as the cause." I disagree to an extent...it may not be the "cause" but it may very well add to the mix...if a child is afraid of disppointing a parent, and I am not blaming the parent, if a child is afraid of going to school and dealing with a bully, if a young person is gay and doesn't know how they will be perceived, if a young person feels like they have to do it all and do it all well....anything can push a depressed person over the line</p>
<p>there are many depressed people who "manage" and pull themselves back from hurting themselves, but if something "big" happens, that may turn them in the wrong direction</p>
<p>If you have done any reading about teen suicide you will see that many "accidents" are indeed most likely suicides, from kids that got the bad grade, or dumped by the girlfriend</p>
<p>So to disgard life events as important is denying who young people are, the events by themselves are not the cause ofthe suicide, but can be the catalyst. When you have a child who has something "bad" happen, is dealing with life stuff, you MUST pay attention.</p>
<p>PETER JENSEN, MD: In terms of children who actually complete suicide, we know that the greatest risk factors are having a mental health disorder. Sometimes concomitant or co-occurring substance use would put a youth at risk. But depression, probably the single leading cause would be associated with the suicide.</p>
<p>Now there are often precipitants. So while a child might have depression, or a youth might have depression, there may be also a stressful event that happens on top of that depression that seems to be a final, if you will, straw. Sometimes a youth, we know from some situations, will form a plan and say, you know, "If this happens, then that's it, I'm going to do it."</p>
<p>A 23 year old woman is not a child.</p>
<p>Here is an article from one of the local newspapers with some additional information about the issue in general and some statistics.<br>
<a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/the_valley/16565917.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/the_valley/16565917.htm</a></p>
<p>I am still just sad, and of course that spills over into worry about how much we can sometimes miss. I know that I tend to want my children to be happy and sometimes I know I am guilty of overlooking things that might suggest that they are not--classic denial I guess. We can always learn from such a terrible thing as this, and hopefully can learn to be more kind, and attentive, to our own families and others. </p>
<p>The problem with both heart disease and mental illness is that sometimes the first sign of a problem is death. But at least, if we can be mindful and consistently supportive of our loved ones as human beings, maybe we can at least decrease the incidence of this kind of very sad thing.</p>
<p>Cheers, I know she was not a child. But from what little we know of the development of the human brain, I do think that things like impulse control, and just accumulated wisdom and a sense of perspective can still be absent, or present in only small quantities, in young adults of this age. And they will always be "our" children...</p>
<p>I agree with NJres that something seems very fishy in this whole scenario...</p>
<p>That said, it seems to be against the campus culture to be "publicly" unhappy at Stanford. I have a son there, and I know how hard he and his friends work, and how stressful and sleepless can the days before major projects are due be, and yet they all maintain that happy laid-back atitude. Maybe whining, complaining and playing "misery poker" is healthier after all?</p>
<p>Definitely, nngmm. If you are in a cutthroat competitive environment where everyone is pitted against his fellows, you have to internalize your stress because you can't confide in others or let down your guard. That leads to a lot of bad bad emotional stuff.</p>
<p>That said...I doubt that is relevant to this case. Maybe it's not my place to speculate...but the poor woman did already graduate from MIT, which isn't exactly Stanford...</p>
<p>But, all in all, I just find this incredibly sad. Suicide or no, this is tragic. As for the thing found in the car...perhaps a suicide note? We'll see. The poor family :(</p>
<p>I don't think Stanford is a "cutthroat competitive environment" - to the contrary, it is very friendly and "happy". The problem might be that sometimes people might feel too obligated to appear happy, even when they are not...</p>
<p>Depressed people, particularly those who are suicidal, can be very adept at hiding their condition - one reason a suicide can be so shocking to those left behind. Sadly, I have considerable personal experience with this issue and have learned that even family members who do "pay attention," as we are reminded to do several times above, cannot prevent this sort of tragedy. Sometimes there's a precipitating event anyone can see - and sometimes there isn't.</p>
<p>My heart breaks for the family of this young woman. I would want more evidence before concluding that this was indeed suicide, because of the unusual circumstances. If suicide is proven, how unkind it would be to speculate that the family caused or contributed to it by pressuring her to succeed, or by being unaware of her depression. She was indeed an adult, living independently. How could any family member be expected to know what was in her mind, especially if she decided, for whatever reason, to keep her thoughts to herself?</p>
<p>excellent post, frazzled. I agree with those sentiments & observations.</p>
<p>Your first paragraph echoed some comments by nngmm, & this is the crux of the matter as it applies to depression in general, and on college campuses in particular. (And again, Zhou's may not be that, & may not have been suicide.) But with regard to the point in general (about depression), one is reminded of the Minna Sandmeier case at Stanford a few years ago. "But she was so happy," (everyone protested, before they found the body). There was an epidemic of denial when it came to Minna. The point is that the expectations of others can have a chilling effect on a person's "permission" to come out with his or her depression. Often, the more accomplished and "together" the person (or the more "visible" the person), the more difficult that becomes. Appearances, and evident success, do not tell the story, and often impede the story from being told.</p>
<p>I wish all college campuses would be much more proactive about encouraging disclosure, via publicity, drop-in support groups, and shedding depression from its shame among the accomplished segments of our population. The people most at risk from the consequences of depression are the most successful, who have the most to lose by disclosure. Without disclosure, there can be no intervention.</p>