Stanford, Harvard, or Yale???

I never imagined that I would be put in this situation of deciding between these three amazing schools, so now I am having a very difficult time with choosing where to enroll. I would appreciate any advice or help you can provide! Here is a little about me:

I plan to double major in political science and international relations. I have a large interest in studying abroad, but not much of a budget to do this on my own. I am interested in studying sustainable food politics, as well. The campus culture is very important to me, I prefer the students to be collaborative rather than (overly) competitive and am not interested in Greek life at this time. Student happiness is also important to me, which is why I am majorly concerned about the idea of attending Harvard (The Cult of Yale article is rather telling, in my opinion.) I would like the program I am in to be strong and encourage independent thought (nothing that stream-lines students like pre-professional programs tend to). Finally, I want there to be a focus on undergrad programs on campus! :slight_smile:

Side-note~ Vegan-friendliness would be a perk!

Does this sound like any particular school? Are there any of these campuses that definitely do/don’t embody these characteristics?

Thanks so much for your help!

Since you are not asking about CS/engineering where there is a clear leader…when it comes to studying political science/international relations…all three schools are equally strong and you can’t go wrong with any one of them. This is where “fit” will come in…and only you can answer that…

…visit…and go where you will be happiest!

@gravitas2‌ Do you really find them equal in the social sciences? If so, I will be very happy because nearly the only reason I was hesitating about Stanford is that people have said it is underdeveloped… but with professors like Condoleezza Rice, how could it be?

It is rather unfortunate that Stanford’s reputation in CS/Engineering/Tech/Entrepreneurship/Venture Capital world overshadows Stanford’s equally impressive humanities/social sciences departments and their well-known interdisciplinary departments like international relations/political science…

…Harvard, Stanford, and Yale produce the most members of congress…
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2010/10/28/harvard-stanford-yale-graduate-most-members-of-congress

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-humanities-schools/political-science-rankings

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/subject-ranking/subject/social-sciences

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/subject-ranking/subject/arts-and-humanities

…and don’t forget Stanford’s wonderful study abroad programs:
https://undergrad.stanford.edu/programs/bosp

Go where you will be at “home” with the vegan lifestyle that is so California and Bay area in particular…
B-)

Although all schools have top-tier programs, consider looking at the east coast schools. Just as Stanford gained its reputation for being in Silicon Valley, the east coast will be better for the political climate and i

I have the same problem between Stanford and Yale…

I think Harvard and Yale are both better than Stanford for PolSci and IR, particularly with the amazing international community Yale has. I’d say Yale is best. I think Stanford has by far the best ambience, followed by Yale; both Stanford and Yale also emphasize undergraduate study more than Harvard with its multitudinous graduate students.

Weigh these factors and see what you think. I think Yale wins!

A lot of people change their intended majors once they are in. Stanford offers “more” subjects to study if you are not only interested social studies.

Foreign Policy magazine ranks Harvard’s undergrad IR program as #1, Stanford’s as #3, and Yale’s as #6: http://foreignpolicy.com/2012/01/03/the-top-ten-international-relations-undergraduate-programs/

appanxiety, you won’t go wrong with any of these schools quite honestly. At this level, it’s a matter of fit and personal preference… Visit if you can, and I can pretty much guarantee you will know which place is best for you. All these schools are strong in the humanities. Stanford is strongest in CS/engineering, but it’s humanities are equally as strong as Harvard and Yale.

Most people would be ecstatic to go to any of these schools.

My son, who will probably (but not definitely) major in CS, is facing the same decision (plus one other school). We’ve done a great deal of research and now have no clear front-runner, though we do have a good understanding of the pros and cons of each school. He’ll be visiting these three again, and we’re hoping the decision will be easier to make after that. Sometimes I do wonder, though, whether the fine points of each school’s reputation in a particular department means much at the undergraduate level—will it really matter, for instance, if the college a student attends is ranked #1 in a field versus #17? Won’t there be enough good courses and experiences at any of these places, in any major? I’d think that getting a degree from Harvard, Yale, or Stanford in any field would open similar doors (except for ones that are locationally based—for example, tech jobs in the Bay Area might be more likely to go to Stanford students).

I thought Yale generally discouraged study abroad, at least during the school year. You may want to look into that.

For CS, I don’t see how among the three, Stanford is not the clear front runner.
(financial issues, personal issues preference for east vs. west coast, etc not included of course).

The vibrancy of CS and the involvement of the local community (like on campus talks, or having Zuckerberg show up and teach give a lecture to the intro CS class, or casual lunches with local large company or start up people) is infectious.

Also, it isn’t just about opening doors because of the name on the degree, it is about opening doors because from the network you built among your classmates and alumni. Stanford’s network is huge, powerful and growing in CS.

@Planner‌ Congratulations to your son on his acceptances! Its great to know there are other people in the same situation. I’ve heard that Stanford’s CS is outstandingly better than H and Y’s, especially pertaining to employ-ability later on, although, like you said, a degree from any school is a good thing. Similarly to your comment about Stanford and tech jobs, I have heard that jobs in the political realm tend to go to Harvard students… do you know if this is true compared to Stanford’s social science programs? Or does that idea even have any weight in making decisions?

@skyoverme Thanks—you’d think the choice would be clear, but it isn’t. No external factors are influencing it, either. Part of the hesitation may simply be because Yale has had a 3-month head start. I’ve addressed the issue of early acceptances and likely letters elsewhere, and I do think they confer a huge advantage to the early school. The others schools are definitely catching up now, but it’s still hard to change one’s focus and plans.

@AppAnxiety Thanks, and congratulations to you, too! I don’t really know about political science, but there are some famous people connected with Stanford who’ve gone into politics! :smile:

@planner Interesting. I didn’t see your other posts about the head start. Didn’t realize it could be so impactful. Good luck in the process.

Thanks, @skyoverme. Yes, basically any early school has quite a bit more time, often with no competition, to woo accepted or likely students and sell themselves. Even if students (and their parents) are aware of that, it’s difficult to completely escape the influence, especially if it’s a place you’d be thrilled to attend anyway and the school does a really good job. As I’ve said, by the time additional schools come into the picture, it may be too late—the student’s heart may already have been won.

@AppAnxiety‌ From the perspective of raw rankings, Stanford’s political science department is #2 (Harvard’s is #1 and Yale’s is #4). The social science in which Stanford really shines is psychology, as the department has been ranked #1 for quite some time. But having said that, all of the other posters are correct in saying that the overall quality of the social science departments at these three universities is comparable.

From the standpoint of academic opportunities in the social sciences, each of these schools will give you way more opportunities than you can take advantage of.

To address one of your concerns, there is certainly no lack of opportunities in the social sciences at Stanford. Campus is home to the Hoover Institution (http://www.hoover.org/), which is one of the country’s leading policy think tanks. Cody Rice is a fellow at the Institution as well as a professor at the University, and she teaches a class during Winter Quarter. Other fellows include George Shultz (Secretary of State under Reagan), whom I met at a Hoover dinner to which some undergraduates were invited. The Hoover Institution has a program for undergrads interested in IR called the National Security Affairs Mentorship Program (https://www.facebook.com/StanfordInternationalRelationsProgram/posts/650419541712123). When President Obama came to Stanford for the White House Cybersecurity Summit in February, 10 undergraduates met with him for a roundtable discussion (http://www.stanforddaily.com/2015/02/13/obama-meets-with-10-unsuspecting-students-for-hourlong-roundtable/). Most of the students in this group came from the Mentorship Program. Outside of Hoover, Stanford is also home to the Center for International Security and Cooperation (http://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/), which has an undergraduate honors program in which students do research with a CISAC fellow and write a senior thesis. I should also add that Mitt Romney came to one of my political science classes (most of us took individual pictures with him), and I took a political science class taught by the chief advisor to his campaign. Stanford also has the Bing Stanford in Washington Program (https://siw.stanford.edu/) for juniors. While in this program, students spend a quarter in DC, where they have an internship during the day and take classes at night. Justice Breyer and Senator Cory Booker (both Stanford grads) have dropped by the Stanford House in Washington to talk to students, with Breyer reportedly giving last year’s group his personal email address. So, in short, you will not be low on opportunities as a social science student at Stanford. If you don’t get enough of polisci/IR in the classroom, you could even join Stanford in Government (https://sig.stanford.edu/) as an extracurricular activity.

Having said all of this, though, Stanford definitely does “feel” like an engineering/Silicon Valley feeder school no matter who you are and what you study. Many more of your classmates will be studying engineering than Political Science, and the fact that so many Stanford students (somewhere around 30%, I think) major in the School of Engineering simply affects the overall “feel” of the place. Just like (and I can’t speak to this personally since I don’t go to UPenn) UPenn feels like a finance school since Wharton is such a big part of it. The bottom line is that you will know a lot of engineering kids, and many of them will spend their summers at Google, Facebook, Palantir, etc. And, yes, many of the career fairs will cater to these kids (particularly to CS kids) since those are the people who will make the most money for corporations. Now, since you want to do PoliSci or IR, you probably want to go to graduate school, and you’ve already said that you don’t want to have a pre-professional undergraduate experience, so you won’t even be at these career fairs in the first place. But they will exist at Stanford (and at Harvard and at Yale, except those may focus less on tech and more on finance). I should also add that CS enrollment numbers are on the rise at both Harvard (CS50 is the most popular class and CS is the fastest-growing concentration) and Yale (which just adopted Harvard’s CS50), so my gut tells me that you will have fewer peers in PoliSci and in IR relative to years past no matter where you go. Also, when you hear that Harvard students get more government jobs, you should consider that more Harvard students want government jobs than Stanford students, most of whom want to work in tech and engineering. I think that that accounts for most of the difference. To be clear, I do not think that any government doors will close for you just because you have a Stanford PoliSci degree and not a Harvard government degree.

A few nuanced points:

  1. Harvard does not have an International Relations concentration. You could concentration in Government and then specialize in IR, but it doesn’t have a concentration named IR. Stanford does have an interdisciplinary IR major that combines political science, economics, and a foreign language. You can look at this major’s requirements here:

http://exploredegrees.stanford.edu/schoolofhumanitiesandsciences/internationalrelations/#bachelortext

  1. I’ve heard that double-majoring (which you say you want to do) is far less common (and perhaps more difficult thanks to the semester system) at Harvard and Yale relative to Stanford. I do know of many Harvard students who do a primary concentration (i.e., major) and a secondary concentration (i.e., minor), but that isn’t the same as a double major. Double majoring isn’t terribly common at Stanford either (primarily because some of Stanford’s most popular majors like CS make it hard to double major since the major itself requires so many classes), but doubling in PoliSci and IR would definitely be doable.

Let me know if you have any questions.

@‌ Planner

My son got in Yale early, and eventually chose Stanford. It was a very difficult decision. The main reason for choosing Stanford was that he thought Stanford was relatively strong in STEM overall, and he could have more options in case he did not like his intended majors.

He did not major in CS. Upon graduation, he could have gone to a consulting firm had not Google given him an offer he could not refuse.

@aleaiactaest‌ Thank you so, so, so much! I do have one more question that has come up after some research. Harvard both hosts an extra Washington internship program and offers nearly full travel/research grants for over the summer break, which is really tempting for someone with a deep interest in international food politics and no budget to travel with. Do you know if Stanford offers any similar sort of program??

@aleaiactaest‌ And thank you very much for shedding some good light on Stanford!