Stanford or Harvard

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
181

<p>Excerpts from the Harvard Crimson Magazine</p>

<p>Published On 11/20/2003 12:00:00 AM</p>

<p>By BRIAN FEINSTEIN, ADAM P. SCHNEIDER, WILLIAM L. ADAMS, SCOOP A. WASSERSTEIN, and A. HAVEN THOMPSON</p>

<p>Crimson Staff Writer</p>

<p>When the elevator in William James Hall shuts, those on the inside are privy to a telling phrase, etched in the door’s metal frame by an angst-ridden student: “Harvard Sucks.” Beneath that, a retort: “No, it doesn’t.”</p>

<p>The former expression has become an anthem for Mawuena M. Agbonyitor ’04, a social anthropology concentrator in Mather House. Sitting on her bed to avoid the work building on her desk, she listlessly flips through TV channels. “Cold, gray and tired”—these are the words that describe her day-to-day Harvard malaise. “I honestly don’t know anyone who likes it here,” she says. “Everyone is waiting to get out.” </p>

<p>If this malaise is as general as Agbonyitor and Franekova suggest, why don’t more Harvard students jump ship? Chris Cowan, a former member of the Class of 2005 who transferred to Stanford, asserts that Harvard’s social mores override student dissatisfaction. “Even with all my complaints, Harvard was a hard place to walk away from,” he writes in an e-mail message. “The culture there is either you love it or you’ll suck it up because the name is worth it. Most people, even those that are unhappy, wouldn’t leave.”</p>

<p>Agbonyitor agrees. In spite of her grievances, she lives by a disheartening philosophy. “Get your degree and hope it’ll all get better.” </p>

<p>Popular culture suggests that Harvard is the place to be. U.S. News & World Report places Harvard at the top of its college rankings. Films like Legally Blonde purport that we can be smart, glamorous and happy all at the same time. Platitudes tell us we should be having the time of our lives. And yet the National Institute of Health reports that in 2002, 69 percent of Harvard students felt exhausted up to 10 times during the year, 65 percent felt overwhelmed by all they had to do and 48 percent felt things were hopeless. </p>

<p>The Harvard name keeps students here, but what drives this dissatisfaction? Does the University’s lack of concern breed unhappiness? Are Harvard students inherently difficult to please? Or is there simply a culture of discontent that compels students to complain whenever they can? </p>

<p>Historically, Yale University has the been #2 in higher education to Harvard’s #1, the Pepsi to our Coke, the Lexus to our Mercedes. Yet, despite being the undisputed #1 in the pop-culture rankings, Harvard may fall far short of Yale in one very important respect—the happiness of its students.</p>

<p>In an environment saturated with ambition, stress and—according to some—socially awkward students, the administration would be wise to more actively facilitate opportunities for release. Louder dancers, longer parties and a more laissez-faire policy toward fun—this is the stuff of a contented collegiate life. By loosening its grip, the College can help put an end to the culture of complaining. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=350153%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=350153&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

182

<p>Another Harvard Crimson Magazine excerpt:</p>

<p>Some might even say that Yale is forced to make such social concessions to give itself a competitive advantage that can help close the gap in the admissions game with its arch-rival. Whatever its motivation for so doing, Yale places a priority on supporting its college system, and social life more broadly, and students are better off because of it. Harvard, on the other hand, seems all too aware of just how many quality of life sacrifices students are willing to accept in order to get their Harvard diploma.</p>

<p>The flip-side to this argument is, of course, that Harvard students will be rewarded for their hard time in Cambridge with the singular Harvard diploma. Would it be asking too much to not only be able to love the name on your diploma but the experiences behind it? The administration seems to think so. But isn’t wanting it all part of what makes us Harvard students?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=350154%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=350154&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

183

<p>I know some pretty dissatisfied and unhappy Yale alums- they say they would be like that anywhere, though. They didn't get into Harvard.</p>

184

<p>Did anybody notice that the Harvard yield rate rose to an even 80% this year? 1687 matriculants so far, from 2109 admits.</p>

185

<p>William James Hall - hey, that's the psych building. It's just the kind of graffiti you expect to see there. LOL I'm surprised that they didn't find some graffiti with sexual references so that they could write a piece on how Harvard students are all sexually deprived. It might have been more entertaining.</p>

<p>Crimson writers have to take classes like everyone and once in a while they can't think of something decent to write about and they get lazy. So you track down this one guy in the class who transferred to Stanford and bingo, there's your piece for this week! </p>

<p>How about transfers from Stanford to Harvard? There are probably more of those.</p>

<p>Thanks for the amusement, Farmdad, but I'm not sure how that changes the fact that four out of five Harvard students are ultimately happy with their Harvard experience? Perhaps it's time to make the distinction between anecdotes and the reality. Where's the factual evidence that Yale students are happier than Harvard students? I simply cannot imagine - I would be chronically depressed if I were stuck at Yale. I also know a few Harvard people who went to Yale for grad school but so far NONE has said they liked it better than Harvard. </p>

<p>By the way, for clarification,</p>

<p>3% of Fortune 500 CEOs (including those w/o college degrees) went to Harvard College (highest among all colleges)</p>

<p>23% of Fortune 500 CEOs with MBAs went to Harvard Business School (highest among all business schools).</p>

186

<p>a while ago there was an interesting article about a student who attended stanford for freshman year, then transferred to harvard, and ended up back at stanford for her last two years of school
but im sure you're right, there are probably more transfers from stanford to harvard, just because you say there are</p>

187

<p>Byerly, do you have a link to your yield rate data?</p>

188

<p>Based on hours of research, a thesis, an eventually a Ph.D in this field, my postulate has been confirmed. Stanford> Harvard, Stanford>Yale. This is definitive so don't even try...</p>

189

<p>I mean can you really argue with someone from who spells meters, metres, and says he's from Oxford 09'(England) i mean. cuhmon.</p>

190

<p>Byerly, by my calculation, that yield rate is acutually 79.990516832622095779990516832622% There you go again, inflating your statistics to serve your cause.</p>

191

<p>lol @ farmdad</p>

192

<p>Sorry to say that there appear to have been 3 additional matriculants, pushing the yield over the magic line!</p>

<p>(Summer melt may drop it back under of course, unless a few juicy 100% waitlist admits are added!)</p>

193

<p>Sorry, ske293, but the trend is working against you! If you want to be a Fortune 500 CEO from Harvard, you'd better get there fast!</p>

<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-06-cover-ceos_x.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-04-06-cover-ceos_x.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Excerpts:</p>

<p>"A study by executive search firm Spencer Stuart found that the percentage of CEOs at Fortune 500 companies who were educated at Ivy League schools declined from 16% in 1998 to 11% in 2004. Even the Harvard MBA shows signs of erosion. Among large-company CEOs who have MBAs, 28% received their degrees at Harvard, according to the 1998 study. By 2004, that had slipped to 23%."</p>

<p>"There are other reasons behind the trend. Non-Ivy colleges and universities, both public and private, have gained stature, allowing recruiters to do more fishing at non-Ivies to avoid the 'sense of entitlement' they encounter on Ivy campuses, says Jeffrey Sonnenfeld."</p>

<p>"Trend away from Ivies grows"</p>

<p>"If anything, the CEO trend away from Ivies is intensifying. So far in 2005 there have been 24 new CEOs named to run Fortune 1,000 companies, according to public relations firm Burson-Marsteller. USA TODAY found only one, Corning's soon-to-be-CEO Wendell Weeks, with an Ivy League degree, a Harvard MBA ('87)."</p>

194

<p>P.S. Among the Fortune 1000 CEO's who were hired in 2004 and 2005, 2 received their undergraduate degrees from Stanford while 0 received their undergraduate degrees from Harvard. Even Tufts outdid Harvard on this score!</p>

<p><a href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2005-04-07-ceo-colleges.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2005-04-07-ceo-colleges.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

195

<p>what is this all about? haven't we had this discussion already? </p>

<p>conclusion: if you pay attention to the people just below the CEOs. ie people who makes tons of money, half of them are from wharton, 40% more are from hyps. ceos dont mean jack.</p>

196

<p>Well, obviously you are overinterpreting with a rather limited sample size, ie. a handful of CEOs hired over a 2 year period. Along your line of reasoning, Akron College, Hiram College, and dozens of other obscure schools with 1 CEO each during this period are now better at producing business leaders than Yale or Princeton (both 0 CEOs). U. of Michigan (3) is now better than Stanford (2). Clearly this is nonsense. Looking at all 500 Fortune CEOs would be a more legitimate measure, albeit still far from perfect, because there are other important managerial positions within a company. For trends and turnovers, I think you should at least cover a 5-10 year interval before drawing any tentative conclusions.</p>

<p>It's not too surprising that the share of the Ivy League and other elite schools has fallen somewhat because 1) there are more colleges offering more business programs and enrolling more students now than 25 years ago, 2) the quality of state universities has risen, and 3) stellar academic credentials are needed for Ivy League admissions but are not necessarily the most important factor in business managment. But the number of schools and programs won't grow at the same rate and it's highly improbable that the state schools will ever surpass the Ivy League. So it's unlikely the fall will continue indefinitely. </p>

<p>It might be worth reflecting on the fact that there are 15 million college students enrolled at 4200 colleges. Harvard has about 6500 undergraduates, which is about 0.04% of the national college population. Only about 10% of the Harvard graduates go into business. It is then quite a remarkable feat that Harvard College graduates make up 3% of the Fortune 500 CEOs.</p>

<p>Thanks for the tip but I have no plans to go into business at this time.</p>

197

<p>Does anybody know how many Stanford-Yale cross-admits choose Stanford? I am trying to settle an argument here :)</p>

198

<p>At least Stanford isn't infested</p>

<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513476%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513476&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

199

<p>At least Cambridge doesn't have to worry about EARTHQUAKES!</p>

<p><a href="http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2006/marapr/features/earthquake.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2006/marapr/features/earthquake.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

200

<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513463%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513463&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>