<p>In the beginning of the year I have been fairly adamant about applying to Penn Ed. Stanford has always been a close second but now as applications are available I am beginning to have second doubts. I understand there are many differences and it would be wise to apply to both, however I feel insecure about not getting in to either which is why I planned to apply early to Penn. I understand both have very social environment as well as top academics. Would you be so kind to give me your advice on whether I should apply rd to both or another option?</p>
<p>Penn is the only one out of the two with a true finance major if that’s what you have you heart set out on.</p>
<p>Stanford doesn’t have an undergraduate business program.</p>
<p>But I can major in Economy</p>
<p>Wharton if you’re 100% sure about a future career in business.
Stanford if you’re iffy.</p>
<p>If not Wharton then, </p>
<p>Stanford>Penn CAS by far. Wharton, Penn is probably the only school that can rival HYPS (or even out do) for business placements . Management Science would probably prepare you better than an Economics major.</p>
<p>If you are interested in Venture Capital or Technology then Stanford If you are interested in going to Wall Street then Wharton (Penn and Stanford are going to be about the same). Overall Stanford has a clear advantage in Silicon Valley, in all other parts of the country and industries it won’t really matter so pick the one you like more.</p>
<p>For undergrad, Wharton is so much stronger than Stanford in finance/business. The recruiting at Wharton in the ibanking, consulting, PE, and HF industry is incredible. At Stanford it’s often just the west coast regional offices recruiting, and my friends at Stanford always complain about how difficult it is to get something in NYC.</p>
<p>Of course if you want to do VC then Stanford may be a better choice, although I would argue the M&T program at Penn is stronger</p>
<p>Econ =/= business. You actually use very little econ in most “business” jobs. Economics is a lot of theory, and UChicago is better than Stanford for that.</p>
<p>I do agree with the above post that while Wharton is stronger than Stanford for business, I would take Stanford over Penn if you only got into CAS (college of arts and sciences) and still want to do business</p>
<p>On the other hand AstonMartin, in 99% of cases employers don’t really care or even desire vocational business training. With the exception of Wharton and a maybe a couple of other schools, the most elite firms recruit econ/math/engineering/ and many other majors from top schools without business undergrad. Being “great” at a major is meaningless, Chicago could be the best econ program in the world and its going to get schooled in finance recruiting by Harvard, Columbia, and Dartmouth regardless of econ program rank. Similarly Businessweek can praise Notre Dame Mendoza or UVA McIntire all it wants, but Goldman is going to recruit many more econ major bankers from Duke.</p>
<p>For finance in particular I do agree its in the order
Wharton => Stanford => Penn</p>
<p>Cornell alum and i-banker here. Have close friends who have graduated from both. Just go to the place where you think you will be happiest. Stanford is great. Penn is great. You will do better coming out of the place where you are most inspired and can succeed as a student and person. Both schools open every door that counts and have tremendous resources…what you do with that opportunity is up to you. Stanford has a different vibe than the ivies…more enterpreneurial and less focused on the banking/consulting tracks, although the opportunity is certainly there and many people go into it. </p>
<p>Major is not a big deal although you should have a balanced education and show some quantititative aptidude. Even at Penn, despite the whole Wharton craziness, there is no reason to study at Wharton just because it increases the odds if “everything is held equal”. Things are never equal, because if you are a passionate and accomplished person, that will shine through your candidacy and you will do very well. Good luck with whatever you decide.</p>
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<p>Couldn’t you cross enroll as a CAS student to Wharton and vice versa? I thought 3 people I personally know did that, and they always write that down on their resumes.</p>
<p>Stanford follows the philosophy that most schools including Harvard, Yale, etc. do regarding business: that a business degree is far more valuable after having had some experience in the real world, and that undergrads tend to be uncertain about what they want, so there’s no point in having an undergrad business program.</p>
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<p>I’ve never heard anyone complain about that. It’s more the case that students don’t care for NYC - there’s so many opportunities elsewhere, especially in the Bay Area, Silicon Valley, and LA, that there’s little point in going to NYC. Either way, Stanford is now in the planning stages of building a NYC campus (next to Manhattan) that would focus on engineering and business, specifically trying to replicate what the university did to create Silicon Valley. The City of NY is still calling for proposals, but Stanford’s the most likely choice. I don’t think students will have difficulty finding opportunities in NYC.</p>
<p>OP, if you’re interested in the crossover between engineering and business, Stanford is by far the best (M&T is excellent, but can’t compare to Stanford’s offerings there). The entrepreneurial focus is the cornerstone of the university and has been the most defining characteristic of Stanford for several decades now (since the creation of Silicon Valley, which is what boosted Stanford to the top and is why Stanford’s so rich now). So if spin-out technology is your interest, you’ll have innumerable opportunities at Stanford, with its 3,000+ connections to companies it founded throughout SV, its Technology Ventures Program, Mayfield Fellows program, etc. You’ll have the opportunity to major in Management Science & Engineering and combine it with classes from the b-school (many of which are open to undergrads), in addition to the typical econ classes required by MS&E.</p>
<p>That said, both Penn and Stanford are great, so clearly whichever you feel you like more should be the one you apply to early. The one caveat I’d have about that, which is what I say to anyone who isn’t 100% certain a school is their first choice, is that you shouldn’t apply to any school ED unless you are comfortable being bound to attend. Applying ED is serious stuff. If you have any misgivings about a school at all, then ED is not for you. That’s not to say that you can’t come to love Penn more and find that you are 100% certain, in which case you should definitely apply ED. But ED programs are not for the weak of heart. If you are not certain you’re comfortable being bound to attend, then it’s better not to risk it.</p>
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<p>I honestly don’t know what’s so great about M&T academically. That thing is just asking you to double-major in business and engineering. There are couple “linking” classes but that’s about it as far as the integration of the two goes. Penn’s engineering isn’t great and isn’t gonna be all that just because you tag a business major onto it. The two are independent of each other. </p>
<p>Example of those linking coursese are Management 237: Management of Technology and Management 235: Technological Innovation and Entrepreneurship. But I wonder if you can actually lecture a 20-yo without any work experience to be creative/entrepreneurial. </p>
<p>Furthermore, if one is really interested in the integration of the two, Stanford has a top-ranked program in Management Engineering and Sciences.</p>
<p>if you want to start your own business, the choice of school should be obvious.</p>
<p>Why not notre dame or UVa?
Both are easier (but not safeties) to get in to, and are ranked just as high, if not higher than Penn for undergraduate business (although rankings aren’t everything)</p>
<p>^ Huh? Penn is ranked #1. [Best</a> Undergraduate Business Schools | Top Undergraduate Business Programs | US News Best Colleges](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/business]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/business) </p>
<p>But I do agree rankings are only interesting and not the be all, end all.</p>
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<p>You graduate with two separate bachelor’s degrees vs most people who only have one. It’s not about how “integrated” the curriculum is. I’m not sure if you’ve gone through job recruiting before, but as someone who has actually screened college resumes, I guarantee that M&T students have a huge advantage over a “management science” student from Stanford.</p>
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<p>Goldman doesn’t recruit from Duke or Dartmouth any more than Notre Dame or Chicago…none of those are considered top targets like Harvard/Wharton/Princeton/Stanford. </p>
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<p>I can only speak for investment banking/finance jobs, but I’m certain NY offices don’t recruit as heavily in the West coast as they do in the East coast. It could be that students at Stanford/Berkeley prefer to stay in cali, or that it’s just not worth it for companies to fly bankers all the way from NYC all the way to palo alto. There are also far fewer Stanford alumni in NYC vs SF/Menlo. Thus, I wouldn’t be surprised if students at Stanford who want to work on Wall St have a harder time navigating the recruiting process. It’s also a huge pain having to fly to back and forth between NYC and SF for interviews during recruiting season.</p>
<p>Of course the opposite is also true for students at Ivy League schools who want to work in cali…</p>
<p>Not true at all, Dartmouth is an absolute target for Goldman. It is a core school with on-campus recruiting. Dartmouth is more of a target than Yale and more than Chicago and much much more than Notre Dame (Which is not even a core target). Not sure where you’ve gotten your information.</p>
<p>Hank Paulson was a Dartmouth English major and ran Goldman Sachs. </p>
<p>I have new respect for the man after watching the excellent HBO movie “Too Big To Fail”.</p>
<p>My brother went to Dartmouth and worked at Goldman. I know he thinks Dartmouth recruiting is exceptional, up there with HYP. I’ve seen lots of other posters who’ve worked in banking or finance echo that.</p>
<p>This might be helpful to you. Here is a link to the 2010 (most recent available) Wharton undergraduate career placement survey:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports/WHA_2010cp.pdf[/url]”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports/WHA_2010cp.pdf</a></p>