Stanford or Yale SCEA?

College Search & Selection
21

<p>"Re: Social Scene. Things may have changed since the mid-70's when I visited my friends at Yale, and I was at applying (successfully) to Stanford. However, Yale seemed depressing to me. All people could talk about was their sleep deprivation. </p>

<p>Gee, great. Work your a%#s off for years, and your reward is a grind school that leaves you half asleep most of the school year."</p>

<p>Yeah that couldn't be farther from the truth; OP, disregard that last post of DinninLa's. He really isn't in any position to make such a claim. (I actually go to Yale.)</p>

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<p>rd -- if my post is not accurate, then tell us how things have changed. Asking a rational person to "disregard" something only reveals a weak position.</p>

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<p>The only people who have ridiculous work schedules are those who choose the directed studies program (intense program in the humanities that focuses on the Western Canon; there are weekly papers and around 1,000 pages of reading every week, although few people do it all).</p>

<p>The rest is all up to you. There is an online course selection website that shows student evaluations of EVERY class at Yale, which includes workload. I have never pulled an all-nighter in my life, and have never done so at Yale. I go to bed every night by 1 or 2 a.m., and I am Premed (so I have one of the harder workloads available).</p>

<p>Yale has noticeable grade inflation; the median GPA is suspected to be around a 3.6 (according to a student survey). As a result, Yalies don't stress out. There's much less busy work than in high school; in some classes you won't even have more than an hour of homework each week. You are in complete control over what you want your workload to be.</p>

<p>As far as the rest of the social scene goes, you can be satisfied no matter what type of person you are. The residential college system provides a "family." You live with these approx. 100 people (JE 2011 had around 95) all four years of your stay at Yale. You also meet people from other colleges. Friendships are impossible to avoid. For partying, there are parties every single night of the week out there if you want them. There are local clubs that students frequent and there are plenty of suite parties. Each residential college also hosts its own social events (e.g., balls, regular dances, water fights, pizza parties, free trips to New York City, and too many more to list.) Yale is also one of the best places to go if you're interested in the arts; there are unlimited performances of operas, plays, symphonies, comedy shows, acapella, you name it. (Yale is also REALLY lax about alcohol policies; we also don't have RA's. There are freshman counselors for your freshman year, but they let you throw parties and drink because they are undergrads themselves.)</p>

<p>The Yale social scene can suit anyone. </p>

<p>And as I know nothing about Stanford, I, unlike DunninLa, will not attempt to give you false, out-dated, and immature comments/views about the school and its social scene.</p>

<p>If you get in to both schools, you'll be making an excellent choice no matter what.</p>

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<p>About Stanford's social scene, I'd say the social scene is different from Yale's which is better or worse for some people. It's hard to describe, but I'd say it is pretty chill. It is very accepting and virtually anyone can find their own niche amongst the people with myriad interests. You really need to visit to know what I'm talking about and decide on which school you feel more comfortable in. I know Stanford students are known to be amongst the happiest of all college students, but I would also hazard a guess that most Yalies are extremely happy with their college experience as well. For the OP, if you decide on Stanford I'd re-consider your major options. I'm not trying to change you or anything, but it's just a bit of advice. Since you want to go to get an MBA and you're a very mathy guy, I would advise you to consider majoring in Compsci. Stanford's compsci program is tops in the nation and will give you other options besides finance and a more well rounded education. Considering computer science is heavily math based, you'll likely be very happy studying compsci which will distinguish you from the pre-Ibanker economics majors. You will also be provided internships by Stanford's location in Silicon Valley. If you are really deadset on finance I'd consider majoring in Management Science and Engineering at Stanford which is basically a combination of applied math and economics (more or less a business major). In addition, you probably won't need to get an MBA afterwards. I'm not saying that Stanford's math and economics programs are no good, in fact its econ program is tops in the country, and it's math program is in the top 10, it's just some advice for you to consider the myriad options which are available to you at Stanford. I'd also look into what else Yale can offer you academically as well.</p>

25

<p>Think of it like this: which is your first choice? Apply to that one SCEA.</p>

<p>Don't try to game the system here. Far too many applicants try and it doesn't work. What you should do is explore each one in-depth and see which one you like more--you will inevitably like one more than the other. A few things:</p>

<p>
[quote]
- Easier to get in (SAT wise)

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</p>

<p>No, it's not easier to get into. Yes, the average SAT score is slightly lower, but Stanford is as hard to get into as Yale, even for SCEA.</p>

<p>
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Harvard/Princeton would-be EA applicants are going to Yale?

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</p>

<p>I would agree with that. This past year, Yale's SCEA pool shot up a considerable %, whereas Stanford's was steady.</p>

<p>
[quote]
- Seems more prestigious

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</p>

<p>No. Y and S are pretty much on par. S has especial prestige in technology fields. In addition, since prestige is largely based on grad school strength and research, Stanford would have a leg-up there, though Yale is older, so the two are about equal. (Stanford also has more international prestige.)</p>

<p>Agreed on better weather and higher % of Asians.</p>

<p>
[quote]
- City life more vibrant

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</p>

<p>True. City life is more vibrant at Yale; however, New Haven, as you probably know, is a rather sketchy place, somewhat ghetto and run-down. You probably know of the crime statistics. (This coming from someone who loves the city of Berkeley.) That said, New Haven is still a good city--you just have to regard it as such.</p>

<p>Note, also, that while Palo Alto isn't the best college town, all that you need is on the Stanford campus, and if you ever want city life, there's San Jose next door and San Francisco a short train ride away.</p>

<p>
[quote]
- Vivacious social life (parties, etc), as compared to that of Stanford.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is debatable. Some have complained of the administration's policies re: parties at Stanford, but they have been less stringent and there is a big party scene at Stanford if you want it. "Quality of life" and "social life" are highly related.</p>

<p>
[quote]
- Stanford rejects high percentage of EA applicants, whereas Yale defers most

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</p>

<p>I would agree with that. Stanford is harsh on its SCEA pool. (Then again, it repeatedly states that its mission SCEA is to give as many final answers as possible.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
My main contention is between Stanford's better weather and quality of life and Yale's prestige

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</p>

<p>Three things: a) you might not want to put so much emphasis on weather just yet, b) Yale's quality of life is very high--Yale students are very happy with the university and with life at Yale, and c) if Yale does have a prestige advantage--which I doubt--it isn't that much. Hell, if you were choosing between the two right now (if you'd already gotten in), it would be very foolish to think of prestige as a factor. As a rule of thumb, if two colleges are equal in some factor or approximate enough to be negligible, you don't bother considering it when deciding between the two. And anyone would tell you: to make a distinction in prestige between Yale and Stanford is the epitome of "splitting hairs."</p>

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<p>Agent-- how is applying to Yale early a more strategic plan than applying to Yale early?</p>

<p>Another factor to consider is legacy students who are applying early. Influential families with Yale as an alma mater may be obligated to accept such students (who would most likely be applying early) to maintain good relations... which might detract from the chances of non-legacy students.</p>

<p>kwu--

[quote]
Since you're already in Ithaca, why not head to Cornell?

[/quote]

Haha... I go to Ithaca High School, and we send about 30-35 kids to Cornell each year... so it's not exactly hard to get in/special :-P if you go to my HS (and besides, I'd like to get out of the area).</p>

<p>Yale and Stanford; all differences put aside, which would be easier to get in early? (I'm guessing Stanford)</p>

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<p>
[quote]
all differences put aside, which would be easier to get in early?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Neither.</p>

<p>Apply to the one that's your first choice.</p>

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<p>^ True. Both are equally difficult.</p>

<p>"Agent-- how is applying to Yale early a more strategic plan than applying to Yale early?"</p>

<p>If you consider this strategically, you have a higher chance of being deferred from Yale than Stanford. A low percentage of early applicants are deferred, while a much larger percentage of Yale early applicants are deferred. Therefore, using statistics, the best strategy would be to apply to Yale's early action and if you are deferred, you are still eligible to apply regular to both Stanford and Yale (don't need to resend for Yale). However, If you apply early to Stanford, you have statistically less of a chance to be deferred, as stated before, because they prefer giving final decisions. So if Stanford rejects you, there's no applying through regular. All of this is from a statistical standpoint. If you truly want to go to Stanford, apply there early - if you are destined to be rejected anyway from Stanford, then you'll know earlier...and if you are destined to be accepted by Stanford, you'll know earlier (or be deferred and perhaps accepted later). I suggest not giving up the chance to apply early to the school you really want to attend merely because of strategy, though. This is, after all, your future - go for it if you desire Stanford.</p>

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<p>Wouldn't applying to Stanford early give you an advantage over RD students? Studies have shown that applying early is equivalent to adding 100 points to your SAT score...
The</a> Early Admissions Game: Facts</p>

<p>For example: A student who applies to Stanford RD and is waitlisted (or rejected) may have been accepted if they had applied EA, but a student who is rejected EA most certainly would have been rejected RD.</p>

<p>I feel that this is the main benefit to applying early... even though colleges deny such aspects.</p>

<p>Personally, right now I'm favoring Stanford. But if there's a viable chance that if apply EA to Stanford and get rejected or deferred, but would have been accepted EA to Yale (and not the other way around), I wouldn't mind applying to Yale. Same goes for Stanford...</p>

<p>That's why I'm trying to find out which is easier to get in EA...</p>

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<p>^^ I don't think there's an advantage to apply to Stanford SCEA relative to RD. While statistics may show that early programs give an advantage, I don't think any such study has been done on Stanford specifically.</p>

<p>I would say that Yale's deferring more students is actually a negative--Stanford is committed to giving as many final decisions as possible, so even though they defer fewer students, they are letting you know your decision early. So if you got rejected there early, you would've been rejected RD.</p>

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<p>There's no proof of people getting in with lower stats @ S. Stop citing that book as if it's the Bible of college admissions.</p>

<p>Also, is being deferred better than being outright rejected? I wonder how many of its deferred applicants Yale accepts.</p>

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<p>"That's why I'm trying to find out which is easier to get in EA..."</p>

<p>Dude, we keep telling you, neither one is easier! I think both accept the same percentage of applicants (well, around a similar percentage probably) so they are both going to be difficult to be admitted into early or regular. Just pick which one you like NOT which one is easier because there is no difference,</p>

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<p>Haha okay... thanks for the advice-- it's truly insightful/helpful.</p>

<p>This thread seems to give some insight:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/531757-how-much-does-applying-scea-stanford-affect-chances-reach-applicant.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/531757-how-much-does-applying-scea-stanford-affect-chances-reach-applicant.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I think I'll consider applying SCEA if I raise my CR score (680), although my Math/Writing scores are fairly solid (800, 780 respectively).</p>

<p>As John Etchemendy, provost of Stanford, said in this Op-Ed NYT article, "they [SAT scores of early applicants] average 40 points higher than those of students admitted later..."
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/27/opinion/27etchemendy.html?_r=1&oref=slogin%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/27/opinion/27etchemendy.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>All being said, I'll have to reconsider my options...</p>

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<p>If you truly want to go to Stanford AND you think you have the credentials that would be enough if you were applying regular decision, then apply early. You say that if you don't raise your CR score, then you won't apply early? Does that mean you would apply regular with that 680? If so, then you might as well apply early.</p>

<p>"At Stanford, we actually apply somewhat higher standards to our early pool, since we do not want to accept students early unless we’re confident they would get in during the regular round. This is reflected in the SAT scores for these students: they average 40 points higher than those of students admitted later. It is not, however, reflected in our early acceptance rate, which is indeed somewhat higher than in the regular round."</p>

<p>It says that they have higher standards reflected by a higher SAT average. So, technically, early acceptance rate would be equal to the regular round. BUT, as stated, it says that it's somewhat higher than regular.</p>

<p>Base your stats upon REGULAR DECISION standards because you will only be accepted through early action if they believe for certain you would've been accepted through regular (as stated in the article). DO NOT base your stats on the Early action pool admitted.</p>

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<p>If applying Stanford SCEA, does that mean that there is only one more SAT test date left?</p>

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<p>^^ yes, October is the last date for Stanford SCEA.</p>

<p>Stanford</a> | Applying to Stanford | Dates and Deadlines</p>

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<p>Prestige is a vague, fuzzy word. It is very hard to quantify.</p>

<p>Here are some possible ways to address presitige.</p>

<p>1) Check which university has created more USA presidents, more senators. In this metric, Yale is more prestigious than Stanford.</p>

<p>2) Check which university has a more distinguished faculty. Faculty is the heart and soul of a university. How many faculty members have been selected into the natioanl academies (national academy of science, national academy of engineering, and institue of medicine)? How many faculty members have won Nobel prize, national medal of science, and etc? In any of these metrics, Stanford is better than Yale.</p>

<p>3) Check the US-news college ranking, and the peer assessment (a ranking based on academic peers). In 2008, Stanford is #4 and Yale is #3. As for peer assessment, Stanford is #1, along with H,P,M. Yale is #5, tied with Berkeley.</p>

<p>4) Check the US-new graduate school rankings or ph.d programs ranking by national research council. Stanford is better than Yale in most of those rankings.</p>

<p>5) Which university has made the world better? Which university has contributed more to modern technology: transistor, laser, computer, internet, GPS, biotechnology, and etc? The answer is of course Stanford.</p>

<p>So Stanford is more prestigious than Yale.</p>

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<p>OP - since it is generally resolved in this thread that there is no strategic advantage in apply to one, you must focus on fit.</p>

<p>The two schools have <em>very</em> different cultures. Aside from history, the weather, architecture and geography are very diffferent. More fundamentally, Stanford is a <em>much larger</em> university focused on GRADUATE programs, and Yale is effectively half way between Stanford and, say Amherst in size. The focus is tilted toward the undergraduate students. The sports culture is dramatically different as well. Very little emphasis on squash and fencing at Stanford.</p>

<p>That graduate/undergraduate delta in focus is really fundamental. You really need to chew on the hundreds of tiny differences that creates for your daily life.</p>

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<p>Go where you think you'll be happy! At this level of schools, you are really splitting hairs.</p>

<p>IMO, I would go with Stanford. In California, it is more prestigious than even Harvard!</p>

40

<p>Ok, sounds good... although I don't know if applying SCEA is a good idea (as it doesn't seemingly convey any advantage, as corroborated above)... maybe I should use my "early ticket" to another school where it would be more advantageous (and still apply Yale, Stanford regular). </p>

<p>As provost John Etchemendy said above, standards for early admission are higher-- therefore, students who are accepted later are judged with lower standards (compared to early)-- judged in the same pool as the students that are getting deferred. So I might as well apply regular... it doesn't make much of a difference (even though it may be a nice Christmas present!).</p>

<p>Thus, the only advantage I have seen to applying early is that it's easier to be accepted from a few thousand applications (early), than in tens of thousands (regular).</p>