<p>It seems that stanford has 2 intro course series for engineers in physics: one is the 40’s series, which is the basic calculus based physics, and the 60’s series, which is the more advanced intro series.</p>
<p>If I plan to major in engineering but minor in physics, which one is advisable to do? I’m currently enrolled in Physics C, although our class is really easy, and Calc BC. I’m also studying on multivariate calc at home.</p>
<li> Which books are used by the 60’s series?</li>
<li>Is the 60’s series equivalent in difficulty to the 8.012/8.022 (advanced mechanics/electricity for freshman) at MIT? The advanced intro courses at MIT uses the Kleppner and Kolenkow Introduction to mechanics and Griffith Electrodynamics.</li>
<li>Which class has the better curve? What will my peers be like in the 60’s series? (mostly physics majors with some engineering, mostly engineering majors, mostly olympiad people…)</li>
<li>If I plan to take a course in Quantum and Classical (maybe even statistical) mechanics, is the 60’s series a more appropriate intro?</li>
</ol>
<p>Hey Faraday, while I know nothing about Stanford's own courses, I think you'd really enjoy the more advanced series. I know Berkeley does an honors vs. regular physics series, and the honors series is a <em>LOT LOT</em> more thorough, though of course significantly tougher. People who took it really liked it.</p>
<p>If it's anything like ours, you cannot lose by taking the advanced one in terms of content. It can only be a more taxing thing. Anyone planning on a physics degree likely should take the honors ones, because the upper division physics courses are major slaughter (e.g. Quantum and Analytic Mechanics, upper division electricity and magnetism is particularly bad), and going into them without the honors courses is not great!</p>
<p>I think that success often depends on if you have a math maturity above that of a standard physics student. I think our honors equivalent of AP physics E&M requires more math exposure than standard calculus, for instance. Honestly from reading your posts I think you have the energy necessary to succeed.</p>
<p>Sheesh, I wish I knew more physics than I do =] keep on taking math classes instead.</p>
<p>And the peers are probably going to be dedicated, pretty hardcore physics majors. You can do it if you're not just a typical AP Physics student.</p>
<p>I know a few guys taking it...very, very bright students who're top in engineering as well, but I think with considerable enthusiasm and above average math and physics mastery (I'm sure you've been supplementing your knowledge) you should be fine.</p>
<p>First off I took physics 61 only so I'm not sure I'm the best person to advise you on the whole 60 series. Physics 61 used to use the Kleppner and Kolenkow book but this quarter they tried a book by Morin which we decided was inferior so they might go back to the former. I think the curve is slightly better for the 60 series because it's harder (judging by courserank unofficial data - so it could be totally wrong) but I do know that I bombed the final and managed an A- anyway. There will definitely be a higher level of students in the 60 series (I think 50/50physics and engineering people whereas the 40 series will attract every premed and whatever else that requires one quarter of physics for some reason in addition to the physics/engineering types). Both series dump you into the same track at some point. From what I've heard, it depends on where you want the big jump in difficulty. Do you want it to be going into your Freshman year (60 series), or do you want to glide gradually while you warm up to college and then get a big jump when you go onto bigger better things (40 series)? I would say to make the decision based on your math, not physics, background. I knew a lot of physics going into 61 and took Calc BC. However, there are times when they expect you to do some higher level math (linear algebra, diff eqs, multivariable calc) and you will realize that they don't teach you that until like spring of your freshman intro math sequence and you just have to be willing to teach yourself the math. I heard 63 was better than 61 though so I don't know. I'm dropping down to the 40 series but that's mostly because I don't have time in my schedule this quarter for 63. There are plenty of quality physics majors that go both routes so make the decision based on how prepared you think you actually are for each class. There is no reason to take the hard series just because you think it will look better (not that I think that is what you are doing, you are clearly asking the right questions).</p>
<p>"There is no reason to take the hard series just because you think it will look better"</p>
<p>That's not too much of a concern for me right now, since I don't even know if I am going to grad school. I just want to get a strong physics background, and in fact, I'm thinking about straight majoring in physics :D</p>
<p>"I think our honors equivalent of AP physics E&M requires more math exposure than standard calculus, for instance."</p>
<p>haha, I definitely know what you mean. I looked over the E&M book last yr, and when I saw all those divergence, curl signs, I immediately got started in vector calculus study (I thought, is it I typo? THey have their deltas upside down :D). </p>
<p>So basically, I guess if I can get my multivariate calculus nailed down by june/july, I'll take the 60's series.</p>
<p>YEah sheesh. I need to actually take a class like that, so I get why I even learned all the div and curl stuff! OK imagine this, I learned that stuff before AP Physics...talk about the wrong time. Was just a bunch of gibberish when I did it. If I find the time to take the upper E&M course suicidally with very shallow physics background, I'll see I guess!</p>
<p>My teacher taught us what the stuff meant and it made sense even though I hadn't learned about it in Physics yet (still haven't). Although, he used to teach at Harvey Mudd, so he was bound to be good at teaching :P I like being able to prove why a Faraday Cage works mathematically.</p>
<p>Your peers in 60 series will be mostly physics majors--in fact, they'll be the cream of the crop among physics majors. 40 series will be a lot of engineers, and some physics majors too. (Premeds take the 20 series.)</p>
<p>One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that 60 series is a much smaller class. There's actually a very good chance that you'll get to know your profs if you try to do so. When I was in it, lectures usually had only 10 or 15 people attending (the class had more, but lecture was 9AM, so a lot skipped). You'll also get to know the other students better.</p>
<p>The other major advantage of 60 series is that it covers four quarters worth of material in three. If you take the 40 series, you have to take physics 70 later (modern physics). 60 series, on the other hand, covers special relativity in 61 (which makes E&M a lot cooler) and quantum in 65. That means you only need 3 or 4 more courses to finish your minor.</p>
<p>Of course, 60 series does have a pretty well-deserved reputation for being hellish. Plan on spending a lot of time on it.</p>
<p>Can you give me an assessment of the difficulty?</p>
<p>For final exams and homework sets (which I probably expect hwk sets to be more difficult), are the problems as hard as average problems in Kleppner and Kolenkow, problems in Irodov problems in Physics?</p>
<p>Here is sample exams from MIT ocw for 8.012 (the equivalent of 60 course I guess):</p>
<p>My question: I did very well in my MultiVar course but feel like I am not learning what I should be learning in AP Physics. What physics class should I take?</p>
<p>As I recall, homeworks were usually straight out of K&K for 61. Exams depend a lot on the prof writing them. The 63 final when I took it wasn't bad at all. The 61 final, however, has become infamous in the memory of all upon whom it was inflicted. (To give you an idea, the class average was somewhere in the 30's. Out of 100.)</p>
<p>geckolord: You can start in at either 60 or 40 series. Both are appropriate for people who come in without even having taken AP physics. If you have passed the AP test, and don't intend to take the 60 series, you can skip part of the 40 series (skip 41 if you pass Mechanics, 43 if you pass E&M). "Passing" is a score of 4 (on the Physics C exams).</p>
<p>"I like being able to prove why a Faraday Cage works mathematically."</p>
<p>K. Go! And I don't only want hand-waving at the eddy currents but I want a differential analysis of how wavelength relates to maximum mesh size.</p>