Stanford vs. Caltech

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
1

<p>Right now, I'm having a very difficult time deciding where to go between Stanford and Caltech. I received similar financial aid. </p>

<p>Here are some things to take into consideration:
a) student life
b) level of difficulty (basically, stress level)
c) job offers after graduation
d) research opportunity</p>

<p>Currently, I think my major will be (applied) physics or math, or maybe electrical engineering. I'm not sure whether I will attend graduate school or enter industry. Where would you go and why?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>a) Stanford wins here (#1 happiest students)
b) same
c) probably the same, though if you’re techy, Stanford has an edge (being in Silicon Valley)
d) same</p>

3

<p>Oh no, b) is not same – there is no school that is more stressful than Caltech. You can take it relatively easier at Stanford if you so choose, and the number of technical requirements at Caltech is basically unsurpassed. Caltech <em>tries</em> to be tough. You can take as difficult a schedule at Stanford, but there won’t be the same concentration of people all roasting from the same tough schedule at any school so different in spirit and philosophy from Caltech. </p>

<p>Student life – Caltech is a small math and science focused school, with people who love strange pranks, overall an intensity of math + science, etc. Stanford “winning” is kind of relative. Students are on average probably happier there because there’s less out to get them. Talk to a student taking a Caltech-level schedule at Stanford, and the student will probably be quite stressed – I know such a Stanford engineer. </p>

<p>As for (c) and (d) they should be equal. Caltech is of course a heavily research + theory centered school, so the culture there may be different, but I’d imagine the opportunities will be the same. And any employer who sees you’re a Caltech graduate in physics, math or engineering will know you’re very smart. Probably likewise for Stanford. </p>

<p>Now, between these two, I personally would favor Stanford because Caltech’s program is extremely rigid – everyone has to go through a difficult math and science core, and that probably contributes to crazy workload.</p>

4

<p>I really think people overblow how difficult Caltech is. As I see it, at Caltech, you’re forced to take challenging course loads–because all the majors are hard in and of themselves, and Caltech makes sure they’re hard with the courses students take.</p>

<p>At Stanford, it’s roughly the same, except you can opt to take fuzzy classes / major in something fuzzy / major in something that’s interdisciplinary (so it incorporates techy and fuzzy classes). But you can make it as hard as you want to.</p>

5

<p>Caltech will be hard no matter what you want to major in, while at Stanford it is up to you. From what I have heard from friends and friends of friends - Caltech is extremely hard, but you do have time to party, live, and the atmosphere is not cutthroat. Basically, if Caltech picked you, you are able to do the job. It has a SURF research thing, and with S-F ratio of 3 to 1 your research opportunities are considerably higher than at Stanford. Stanford, on the other hand, is much more diverse (in terms of minority representation, balance between genders, etc.), and you do not have those monster requirements as you do in Caltech (required blocks of hardest Physics, Chem, Math etc. sections). This doesn’t mean that Stanford is easy - it’s not, but speaking relatively - stress is higher at Caltech, and average GPA there is 3.2 I think. Only about 80% of students graduate in 4 years, with more staying for 5, 6, and some not graduating (and this is considering that they pick the best, which means that you did something outside of your perfect SAT scores - AIME, USAMO, international olympiad gold medals and so forth). I think you should visit both - that would answer your question.</p>

6

<p>“Basically, if Caltech picked you, you are able to do the job.”</p>

<p>Not necessarily. Caltech has the lowest graduation rate of its peers–88% or so, which is high but still as much than six times as many people (as a proportion) don’t graduate from Caltech as from HYPS.</p>

7

<p>phantasmagoric, I didn’t write ‘will’, I wrote ‘able’. Caltech has international olympiad winners who burn out without being able to manage their time right, and it has hard workers who have the proper study habits, and would do h/w up to 10 hours a day with no fuss. Caltech doesn’t really care about the diversity - they pick the class based on your merit alone (or almost so), so you have the capacity to do the job. It’s up to you to do it though.</p>

8

<p>I have worked with graduates from both and I would say the Caltech undergrad experience seems more unique. BTW they all ended up as PhDs anyway so I’d go where you fit in the best. (small vs big etc.)</p>

9

<p>

</p>

<p>Look, there’re obviously people who wouldn’t think much of the intro workload, but the important fact is everyone takes some pretty rigorous courses in all the sciences + math, and I know people who went to Stanford and studied, say biology, who would rather not see math again. Which is why, the advice I’d give is that people who <em>want</em> to go through Caltech will probably not find it killing them. I do agree that I don’t buy it when people make a college major seem ridiculously crazy to obtain – to someone who’s informed about and interested in it, it’ll not be so bad. </p>

<p>Stanford does not force the same workload on its students, and this just works better for some students. For those of us who make the schools we go to as hard as can be, of course they’ll be as hard as Caltech is.</p>

10

<p>“phantasmagoric, I didn’t write ‘will’, I wrote ‘able’.”</p>

<p>I know what you said, and I’m saying it isn’t always true. Clearly there are those who can’t do it. They drop out or transfer out.</p>

11

<p>a) student life
Like everyone else has said, Stanford is a much happier campus in general. I lived at Caltech last summer and some of the students I met made it sound like life during the school year was hell and they seemed somewhat resentful. I’m sure deep down they enjoy the hardcore science/math stuff and the pranks sound super fun, but that’s just the impression I got. One of my friends there likes it and seems to be happy. Another thing I noticed about Caltech was that they seemed to be slightly wary of outsiders. There was a non-Caltech student orientation at the beginning and they basically told us “don’t touch our stuff, you’re guests in our houses so don’t mess them up.” I can understand this because they mostly do live in the same house for four years so they think of it more as a home. However, I felt incredibly unwelcomed by it and I know I’m not just crazy because my non-Caltech student roommate got the same impression. Also, they wouldn’t let me into the house computer cluster and I felt I had just as much right to use a computer as they did considering I paid the same amount to stay there over the summer.</p>

<p>Another thing about student life to consider is non-academic opportunities. I, for one, would be pretty sad if I couldn’t do music and Caltech has no private music teachers :frowning: (or at least they didn’t when I checked). Also, they don’t have a music library which I can’t imagine living without. Because of the number of students, there is a much wider choice of other activities at Stanford. Don’t forget awesome PE classes like gymnastics XD. </p>

<p>b) level of difficulty (basically, stress level)
ditto.</p>

<p>c) job offers after graduation
ditto. Not sure, but Stanford is probably better for any type of engineering.</p>

<p>d) research opportunity
Sure there aren’t as many undergrads doing research at Stanford, but I don’t think that’s because it’s less feasible. It’s just because there are more kids at Caltech who go in expecting to become researchers. That said, I know people who started research their freshman year at Stanford.</p>

<p>In conclusion, visit!!</p>

12

<p>FWIW, Stanford allocates more money to undergraduate research than any other university–$4 million. The fact that there are a) lots of faculty (nearly 2,000), and b) lots of grad students, ensures that students can get involved in research rather easily. I know tons of students, many of them freshmen, who are doing paid research internships this summer… as a freshman, I was offered a year-time position at a very prestigious research center during my sophomore year (and I’m not extraordinary, relative to other students).</p>

<p>All that, on top of the fact there most departments have designated research programs for students, and that there’s funding for professors who want to do research projects with undergrads (very common), and that there are tons of other programs and databases that help connect students to research/internship opportunities, makes it pretty easy to get involved in research.</p>

13

<p>I also chose between Caltech and Stanford, but I chose Stanford b/c it was 10K cheaper and more prestigious. Now looking back, prestige (between the two) doesn’t matter at all, unless you want to impress people on the street… </p>

<p>The BIGGEST DIFFERENCE is the environment IMO. Stanford has a bunch of humanities majors, and even many of its technical majors got in not because of their merit. So, most of your friends won’t share your hardcore interests in math and science. If you’ve done well on AIME, Intel, Siemens etc., and got 5’s on technical AP’s, then you’re definitely above average in technical majors, not to mention the rest. The introductory mechanical engineering classes actually frustrated me because it catered to people not as experienced at math. Not so at Caltech.</p>

<p>a) It depends on your personality. If you’re quiet and commited, Caltech might be better. Stanford has more than enough partying; I’m shy and sometimes get annoyed at the loud music and drinking. Nevertheless, Stanford offers a lot of activities, like guest lectures, film festivals, performances, panels on various subjects… I really loved taking the heavily subsidized sports and music lessons (I learned to sing and play the piano here :)).</p>

<p>b) Caltech is rigorous; Stanford gives you choice.</p>

<p>c) Stanford might be slightly better. Still, Caltech definitely makes you stand out for grad school (so does Stanford).</p>

<p>d) Caltech EXPECTS undergrads to do research. It’s famous for that. The Stanford engineering departments also have similar programs, but don’t have as much space (relative to the number of students). You have to look yourself.</p>

<p>If you’ve gone to the two admit weekends, you know what I’m talking about.</p>

14

<p>Major-specific advice:</p>

<p>Math
Both are good. Math @ Stanford doesn’t require that many units, so many people double major or coterm with that. The honors MATH 50H introductory sequence is probably harder than Caltech’s; the regular sequence is still worthwhile, but much easier.</p>

<p>Physics
Caltech is known for its physics. Physics @ Stanford is a small major, so you get a lot of attention…</p>

<p>EE
Stanford is probably better. It has a huge EE department (mostly grad students though, especially Asian international) with tons of funding and research (remember silicon valley). It’s second only to MIT’s. From what I’ve heard, Caltech’s is much less well-known but has very intense classes.</p>

15

<p>I had to face the exact same choice two years ago, and ended up picking Stanford. First let me address your points.</p>

<p>a. Student life here is very varied. I am part of the nerd crew. My draw group consists me and 5 other guys, and we often spend our free time playing Magic the Gathering, N64, and maybe even D&D soon. Most of us don’t go to parties or anything. But there are definitely people who party and drink every weekend if that’s what you enjoy. The way housing works here is you get assigned through a lottery system with a small group of your friends if you want. Since at Caltech, you basically stay in one house every year, that the main difference to me seems that at Caltech, you will be a little closer with most of the people you know, since all of the houses are right next to each other, and you will be in the same house for four years. It’s hard for me to comment exactly how on social people are at caltech, but there are a fair amount of both social and asocial people here. Last year, I had a Korean roommate who I barely talked to. I’m in a new dorm this year, but although I’ve met a few new people, it seems like a lot of people just stick to their group of friends. All in all, I’d say it’s pretty difficult to make a choice based on student life because it will really depend on who you become friends with at either school. Caltech supposedly has a nerdy/quirky culture, which really attracted me, but I would assume a lot of the things like ditch day, interhouse, etc. only occur a small amount of the time. Nevertheless, the atmosphere here is less nerdy, there aren’t really any good pranks. Again, I would say choosing between the based on student life is hard. However, if I was going to decide solely based on this, I might actually pick Caltech, mostly because I am a hardcore nerd and that kind of an environment would appeal to me. I am having a great time here though and have no complaints about student life at Stanford.</p>

<p>b. There is maybe <em>some</em> truth to the fact that you can have it easier at Stanford than at Caltech. However, I would say this mostly applies to the fuzzies. If you are hardcore science/engineering, you will have it about the same I think. Don’t assume that Caltech is naturally harder. Difficulty will depend more on the major you choose than the school. There’s a lot of variation in courses as well since different professors will have different teaching styles and will give different psets. Math, physics, and EE will be difficult at both. I have definitely pulled my share of all-nighters working on problem sets. </p>

<p>c. I would imagine the same for both. A lot of companies recruit from here, as I am sure they do at Caltech as well. What matters is what’s on your resume, not what school you are at. I wouldn’t give any thought to this point really.</p>

<p>d. I know a lot of people here doing research. Most of it is usually during the summer, but some do research during the year too. Last summer I did research through the physics department. I didn’t even hand in an application before the deadline; the physics department just emailed us saying they had several spots for undergrad research towards the end of spring quarter and so I asked one of the profs to join and it was fine. This summer, I’m doing research in the EE department. Because less people are interested in pure science here than at caltech, people are more likely to be doing internships, working on startups, etc. than research. But overall, I’d say it’s very easy to do research here. It varies a little bit by department, but you won’t have a hard time finding research opportunities at either school I think.</p>

<p>Now, let me just tell you a bit about myself and how my first couple of years here have been. So I am a sophomore EE major right now. I originally declared a major in Engineering Physics (probably the caltech equiv of Applied Physics). One of the main reasons I picked Stanford was that it offers more academic freedom. Through the Caltech core, your first two years are basically set. You also have to do 4 years worth of humanities classes if I recall as well. Stanford does have some similar requirements. Your first year will be math, physics, and humanities as well. However, you have more options. </p>

<p>For example, you basically have three choices for your freshman math: the 50 series, 50H series, and CME series. The 50 series is the standard math class that most people take. I am not too sure about the material it covers, but it does overlap a fair amount with CME and is for most people who have taken and done well on the AP BC calc exam. The 50H series is perhaps more like Caltech’s freshman math. It’s very theoretical, very intense, a lot of smart people in that class. I don’t know how it compares in terms of difficulty to Caltech’s math, but you could ask and compare problem sets if you wanted to find out. The CME series is what I took. This is a lot like the 50 series, but geared towards engineers, and teaches you MATLAB a bit. It was definitely challenging, but I was glad I took the class, and I was MUCH happier in it than I would have been doing proof-based math in the 50H series. </p>

<p>Physics also offers you two different tracks at stanford, the 40 series and 60 series. The 40 series is intended for most people who did AP physics B. It’s not too difficult from some of the assignments I have seen people in the class getting. I took the 60 series, which will rape you if you are not pro at physics. About 1/3 of the class is physics olympiad finalists, a number of which are medalists. During the end of 61, I looked at MIT’s first semester of freshman honors physics, and we were basically covering the same material in one quarter. I believe I looked at a caltech physics pset during this time as well, and gauged that it was somewhere between the 40 and 60 series. Taking the physics 60 series gives you street cred.</p>

<p>As you might have been misled to believe, Stanford’s humanities requirement is not greater than Caltech’s. I am pretty sure that it is in fact much less. If I remember correctly, you have to do 12 quarters worth of humanities at Caltech. At Stanford, you have to do IHUM (3 quarters), PWR (2 quarters), your GERs, and a Science/Technology in Society class if you are engineering. Your GERs you can take care of in probably 2 quarters. That’s only 8 quarters worth of humanities. If you haven’t tested out of the language requirement, then that will be another 3 quarters. So oddly enough, if you hate humanities like I do, maybe that’s one reason to pick Stanford!</p>

<p>So as I said before, I switched from EngrPhys to EE last fall. The EE department here is great. Surprisingly, there are relatively few EE majors compared to other subjects such as CS. As a sophomore, I have already had three EE classes with 7 or less people if you can believe that. Most of the core EE classes aren’t even that big and seem to range between 40-20 people. So even though Caltech might be small, I doubt you will have much if any smaller EE classes over there. One thing you might want to look at is how caltech’s course offerings compare to those of Stanford in the different departments. I believe that Stanford offers a bit more project/lab classes than Caltech, but you can check and compare yourself.</p>

<p>Btw, in case you are curious, here are videos of projects I’ve worked on for two of my EE classes.
[YouTube</a> - jlenoach’s Channel](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/user/jlenoach]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/user/jlenoach)
Right now, I’m taking a class in biomedical electronics which I’m enjoying a lot; last Friday, we built an electrocardiogram.</p>

<p>As far as what I do in my free time here, there are two main extracurriculars I have. The first is playing viola in the Stanford Symphony Orchestra. The orchestra is pretty chill. It’s not like you don’t get in if you are not a music major. You might have competition if you are playing brass or woodwind, but getting in for strings is easy. Last summer, we went touring in China for 3 weeks which was amazing.</p>

<p>I am also a part of the Stanford Solar Car Project. We basically spend two years building a solar car from scratch and then race it. Next autumn, the entire team is taking the quarter off to race in Australia, so that will be a lot of fun.</p>

<p>Reflecting on my choice, I think I made the right decision. I don’t want to say that I am getting a better EE education here than at Caltech, but I do think that I am getting more choice in what I want to learn and what style. Some of the opportunities I’ve had such as traveling to China and solar car have also been great and really surpassed my expectations about what my experience at Stanford would be like. That being said, I doubt I would be miserable/unhappy if I had chosen Caltech too. I had a great time at prefrosh weekend and could have easily seen myself there. I guess the main thing I would suggest to you is to keep an open mind. It’s not crazy to pick Caltech for the social life. Don’t think that coming to Stanford means you are going to become a slacker or a fuzzy. For the most part though, the choice is too complicated to reason out, and you will have to just go with your gut.</p>

<p>I hope this helped. You can PM me if you have any other questions.</p>

16

<p>A point about the Stanford math sequences. I took CME and really disliked it; it’s fast paced but only skims the material without going into theory very much. I switched after one quarter and retook the material with the MATH 50 sequence, which clarified and deepened my understanding. The MATH 50H sequence is more for very smart people who already know most of MATH 50. If you’re doing physics or EE (or obviously math), AVOID CME. You can learn Matlab elsewhere without having it crammed into a math class.</p>