The 3 most recent kids I know without a connection to either school who gained admission were admitted to both.
Almost everyone I know who was admitted to Harvard and not Stanford was a legacy (including kids who were legacies at both. This is partly because legacy status counts for less at Stanford. )
But in some ways, that is more of the Stanford culture - a little more “California modern” than “traditional”. Super accomplished kids, very qualified, but hooked in that way.
And I know tons of kids who applied to (and were admitted to) only one of the two. Many were also legacies. They are pretty different schools in terms of vibe.
In terms of history, Stanford was really much more of a regional school through the 70s. If you were a high achieving West coast kid, you applied to Stanford. It had great programs and was well regarded among its peers, but it was not a household name like Harvard.
I don’t think either school has a “type” they admit, but the institutional priorities can affect applicants differently.
When we visited both schools last summer (and this was just spending a couple hours at each school) Harvard kids seemed to be a little more international. The Stanford guides we came across were your average “kid next door” but obviously brilliant, but I felt like they had something really unique about them. Something that really stood out. Not saying Harvard kids don’t have that, but that was my two cent thoughts touring both campuses.
Re that linked thread: I know plenty of low-income kids who were happy at Harvard. and probably Stanford as well. Does a wealthy friend ask if you want to go to Europe for winter break? Yeah. But friends groups are pretty mixed in terms of background.
Maybe Visitas (accepted students day) isn’t the best way to judge since it costs money to fly to go, so attendees might be slanted toward the wealthier.
GoBears2023 is an amazingly accomplished kid. His username was based upon his desire to get accepted into Cornell (which in a really bad choice by Cornell, didn’t happen). For those who didn’t follow his “Chance Me” thread at the time, here was his final list of acceptances:
But it’s useful to remember that highly accomplished kids are still just kids. His family’s financial situation colors his perspective on what other people from a different SES background will be like and that may or may not be accurate. But for him there were no bad choices so we should celebrate his selection of Stanford.
For what it’s worth, my son’s final two choices were also Harvard and Stanford with him giving the nod to Harvard. While part of the reason was geography with Harvard being nearby, another reason was that the higher concentration of extreme math talent among incoming students compared to Stanford (only MIT beats Harvard in that respect). Harvard definitely relaxes standards for some students because of what it thinks they will accomplish in the future, but Stanford does even more so for its athletes, which stick out like a sore thumb compared to the others there. Again, no bad choices between the two.
HYPSM… type colleges make a strong effort to maintain a good yield. When I was a student, Stanford mailed me plane tickets for a flight out from NYS, even though I was more middle income than low income. I also did not need to pay for room, board, transport from airport to campus, or hardly anything else during the visit. I expect Harvard does something similar.
I’d expect it’s more bad luck in which students GoBears2023 happened to interact with and his perceptions of those interactions. Most students at both Harvard and Stanford are probably great persons, but there will always be some exceptions. Harvard’s subjective personal rating has been highly criticized, but it serves a purpose beyond justifying favored groups, as do similar ones at Stanford. Rather than just admitting the kids with best combination of academic stats and awards/ECs, instead favor ones who display actions consistent with having a positive impact on campus, including personal interactions with student peers in dorms and classes. An example Stanford video that discusses this is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UYhTylqC9o .
My personal experience was that Stanford did a good job in this respect, with a more friendly and welcoming student body than I have experienced in any other academic environment, which includes secondary school as well as while attending classes at several other colleges. However, perhaps a similar statement could be made about Harvard. I have no idea how common interactions like GoBears’ are at the different HYPSM… colleges. Anecdotally one of my east coast relatives chose Stanford over a substantially lower net cost “top” Ivy (not Harvard) for similar reasons to the ones GoBears cites.
My D chose Stanford over Harvard for the happy, laid back, friendly atmosphere on the Farm. She spent a weekend at Harvard too and thought the kids she met were very nice–just slightly miserable.
“If you work in admissions at Stanford or Harvard is there a difference in the kids you would accept ?”
I think Harvard would favor legacies more, students from their feeder schools - the NE boarding schools, both prefer athletes, but Stanford loves athletes. Because Stanford is in CA, they’ll get more Asians and Latinos and less Blacks because that’s how the state breaks out. Harvard probably reflects NE area more.
Many of the College Navigator numbers for Harvard University don't seem to apply just to Harvard College, which is what most people on CC mean when discussing Harvard undergrad.
What’s listed on College Navigator are 9950 undergrad students, 28% being part-time, and 21% being over age 25. What I expect for Harvard College are around 6500 students, nearly 100% full-time, and <<5% over age 25.
The only way I see those numbers on College Navigator being accurate is if they include the numbers for Harvard Extension School, which are almost all part-time students, and mostly older than normal undergrad college years.
To me, Harvard seems to have more controversy about admissions, clubs, professors and advisers. Stanford seems to let the students make decisions on where to live, which clubs to join, how to run their lives.
Harvard doesn’t seem to listen to its students and trust them to organize groups. It was punishing some of its best students and leaders by withholding leadership positions or recommendation letters if they chose to join a sorority or men’s chorus or single sex religious group.
As a general rule, you should always use a consistent methodology when comparing demographic numbers between colleges. Different college websites use a wide variety of different reporting methodologies, so they cannot easily be compared.
For example, the Harvard website numbers are for admitted students, not the entering students for the class. More importantly they double count students who are multiple races, presumably to make the URM and/or Asian total look larger (latter could relate to lawsuit). They may also be doing something unexpected with international students.
Stanford’s website uses a completely different methodology that is more similar to standard federal reporting rules, so it cannot be compared with Harvard’s website directly. Instead one might choose a consistent source like CDS or other federal reporting. A comparison of CDS vs website for the different colleges is below.
Using the consistent CDS reporting methodology, it looks like Stanford has far more Hispanic students than Harvard, which fits with the large Hispanic CA population. Stanford has a slight edge in Asian students, while Harvard has a small edge in Black students. The sum of all 3 groups is larger at Stanford.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but as far as I can tell the policy applies only to people who join single-sex social clubs. I don’t see any indication that the rule applies to singing groups or religious organizations.
