Stanford vs MIT...Which is harder to get into?

Applying to College
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<p>
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It seems to me "paddle like ducks" is equated to "people who work hard".

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<p>Just to clarify some things here. At Stanford (judging from the idea I get from talking with alumni, students, and parents that have connections there), people appear to be laid back and relaxed on the top and look all chill and stuff, but at night (or in the libraries), everyone studies like mad and works very hard to attain their goal. They just don't talk about it on the surface. Of course, I'm not trying to stereotype Stanford here, but I don't really like this feeling that I get (and this "paddling like ducks" thing had been supported by many, many students I talked to). I rather if everyone just comes out straightout with the amount of work that they're doing, rather than appearing chill and calm when there's actually a lot to be done. I don't know, perhaps it's California - but this was a slight minus in my considerations of Stanford.</p>

<p>I actually consider myself to be more well-rounded than just a regular science/tech person. I never qualified for any science olympiad (although I did write a research paper on mathematics and submitted it to competitions) - sure, I have good science grades and I guess some scientific aptitude, but I'm equally interested in the liberal arts (I've taken 6 Humanities APs - including all 3 histories) and music (I do vocal, cello, and piano). It was a really hard decision between MIT and Stanford because I seemed more "fit" for Stanford, but I knew from all the contact I've had with MIT (through Mathcamp, Summer Science Program, visiting) that I really enjoyed the campus atmosphere at MIT, not to mention the surrounding college "mood" in Cambridge and Boston. I think this is not something that could be replicated at Stanford (but Stanford does have its merits as well). </p>

<p>Even though I enjoy the humanities almost as much as the sciences, MIT is not utterly devoid of humanities - it's just harder to put humanities down as your major. But I do know I'm not going to major in the humanities regardless, so I think that is a no-issue there. Besides, cross-registration at Harvard allows me to take Harvard courses, should I so desire (I doubt it - MIT always has a very comprehensive course listing), so at the end, this all adds up to MIT > Stanford for me.</p>

<p>I know a girl who turned down Harvard for Stanford, and another guy who turned down MIT for Stanford. Stanford does have its appeal (very little required courses, pretty much free direction of study, very nice location, good weather, "Harvard of the West"...etc.), but I guess it always comes down to what you value. Once you know what you value, research the merits of each school in that area and visit the schools (or talk to their current students). I guess you'll have a clearer picture that numbers can't immediately give you.</p>

<p>And just to explain the Stanford Likely Letter system:
Dec 15 - send out Regular Decision apps
Christmas - January? - initial read of the applications and singling out particularly strong applicants (academically or special talent)
late Jan-early Feb - send out Likely Letters (~100 per year. They go something on the lines of "Congratulations for your fine achievements so far! You've been identified as one of the particularly strong candidates...blah blah...Although your acceptance is not official, there is a very likely chance you will be admitted in April." - colleges generally send this to attract the attention of students before other colleges can communicate with the student.
April - receive official letter of acceptance with other RD students.</p>

<p>So in sum, getting a Likely Letter is like admitted EA (since you know your decision so early), it's just you don't have an "official" letter yet. It is rather pleasant to know a college would take you at the end of January (especially if you were deferred Early), but I wouldn't count on this because likely letters are generally rare. I was very surprised when I got Stanford's letter.</p>

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<p>if i got deferred from stanford SCEA, i might still get likely letters in feb right?</p>

<p>(if i'm qualified enough)
btw, do int'l studnets get likely letters?</p>

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<p>uh oh, my post # is 666.
i'll add another post now :-p</p>

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<p>I don't see why they would send you a likely letter if you are deferred in SCEA. Likely letters are generally rare and they only send it to those that they are very interested in admitting - if they were interested in you, they would just have admitted you SCEA, rather than send you a likely letter.</p>

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<p>Um...can someone familiar with both the schools (like oasis) answer my question.</p>

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Are you guys serious when you say MITs EA offers no advantage? Do you mean that MIT doesn't care either way or do you mean that since the Acceptance rates for EA and RD are very similar, so there's no advantage?

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<p>Well, both are true. MIT does not prefer those students who apply early, and some years the acceptance rate for EA has been lower than the acceptance rate for RD. </p>

<p>The only advantage is that, if you apply early and are deferred to the RD pool, you have a chance to send in more materials to support your case. Many people find this useful, as a few days after they send in their applications, they think of something else they should have mentioned.</p>

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<p>mooliebat provides you with "the official" MIT answers, but everyone knows that there's a significant advantage to applying to MIT EA if you're a girl, b/c EA students have a much higher yield than RD students, and therefore MIT can up their percentage of girls.</p>

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<p>Just because "everybody knows" something to be true doesn't mean it stands up to statistical scrutiny. Do you have any numbers to back up that conjecture?</p>

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<p>but we all knows colleges talk about admissions in an official way...no discrimination and bs, but once I went to an highly competitive private university and talked to the dean of a particular school, he told me that the acceptance rate for South dekota people is either 100% or 50%, depending on how many ppl apply. he told me it's not the official word they say out there, but it's the truth and told me not to tell people. </p>

<p>So...i think official and reality can be off</p>

<p>however, MIT admissions officers seem to be very cool about being truthful, except the part where it's much easier than girls to get in :p
no one FLAT OUT admits those type of stuff, or if it's easier for urms to get in.</p>

<p>contrarily, that dean told me the they also balance out high school ppl, say, 5 super applicants from 1 high school, and 1 good applicant from the other school. they'd take the good applicant even though it's "not as good" (quote from his mouth) as the 10 super applicants. perhaps they'll take 2 and 1, or 3 and 1. </p>

<p>so the official word isn't always the deep dark truth. </p>

<p>but dont quote me on MIT, since it's a specific case and I do not have numbers/stats to back it up.</p>

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<p>btw, i think s snack, </p>

<p>that is a logical deduction....but also a bold one.
it'll be hard to prove that although I can see your logic. </p>

<p>easy-to-comprehend things like urms are easier than asians to get in can get into 1000-post-debates on CC, i wonder if people can understand your deduction here on CC.</p>

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<p>the general wisdom i've heard is that males ought not apply early to MIT.</p>

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<p>Stanford is more lenient to Asian males than othe Ivies/MIT imo.</p>

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<p>^ I think that's true!</p>

<p>Stanford and MIT are both about 1/4 Asian, but I think given the broad Asian applicant pool from California (even private schools tend to favor local students to a certain degree), they are more likely to admit Asian applicants from California. There is not a big Asian applicant pool in MA, so MIT is selective in its choice of Asians to admit (therefore the "local Asian advantage" is not as prevalent). Also, I think the other undeniable factor is that even though MIT is broadening out in its selection of students now (not just admitting the olympiad winners, science fair participants...etc.), science/math scores are still paramount to MIT (to a degree I think is much more focused than Stanford). Asians are notorious for destroying math and science exams, so the competition for spaces at MIT is much harder for Asians than at Stanford.</p>

<p>As for Ivies, Asian percentage hardly ever surpass 15% (it's been like 11 to 13-ish at HYP), so I'm not surprised it's much harder for Asians to make it through the Upper Ivies. Asians probably have a good chance at the lower Ivies, though - but I think this is just because their scores and application becomes relatively superior to the rest of the applicant pool in the Lower Ivies. At the Upper Ivies, Asians don't have a clear advantage in their application (unless they never slept in high school and did something like curing cancer at the age of 16).</p>

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<p>"the general wisdom i've heard is that males ought not apply early to MIT."</p>

<p>since MIT has no prefereence between EA and RD, why not apply "early"?
chances are if you're not an idiot you'll get deferred anyway (11 accept, 11reject, 78 defer)</p>

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<p>Right, there is never a disadvantage in applying early to MIT, unless it keeps a student from applying to an SCEA or ED school which would be a better choice.</p>

<p>FWIW, I got confirmation via email from Matt McGann today that the female admit rates (and therefore the male admit rates also) are statistically identical between EA and RD.</p>

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<p>Two questions, if someone would be kind and answer them.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Im a korean female (international) who needs some kind of financial aid.
since MIT is need-blind to internationals whereas Stanford isn't, do you guys think ill have a better chance at MIT?</p></li>
<li><p>I am somewhat mathematically inclined, but not too good at it. I took AMC/AIME this year and didn't qualify for the USAMO but my teacher told me that i would have if i had gotten one more question right on the AIME. Do you think I still should mention my score on my college application? (MIT and other top schools including Stanford) Im wondering if its too low a score for a MIT applicant;</p></li>
</ol>

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<ol>
<li>Oh, I didn't know Stanford's finaid was need-aware for internationals. I did a quick search online and came across this article: <a href="http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/3/14/internationalStudentAidLacks%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/3/14/internationalStudentAidLacks&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li>
</ol>

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according to University officials, the admissions rate for international students requesting financial aid was three percent. </p>

<p>The low number of foreign students on financial aid reflects the University’s inability to extend its need-blind admissions program — which all American applicants enjoy — to the international community.

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<p>This seems rather harsh - but I guess I am not adequately informed about international finaid to make an authoritative statement.</p>

<p>I know for a fact though that the 3 international students admitted into MIT from Taiwan this year (I'm not an international student) all enjoyed impressive finaid packages from MIT. I think MIT has a very generous finaid program to its international admits.</p>

<ol>
<li>I think you should mention your AIME/AMC score on your application, if you even qualify for AIME. At my school, people put down AIME qualification even though they might not be able to do a single question on the AIME. Getting into the AIME signifies that you are at the top 5% of the contest pool, and although MIT/Caltech might not be super excited about it, it does demonstrate mathematical ability to a certain degree. </li>
</ol>

<p>You can't qualify for the USAMO if you are an international student - but if you are one question away from getting the threshold needed, I think you would have gotten higher than my 4s (which I had for a few years). I looked up stats online and a 4 on the AIME generally puts one in the top 1,000ish scorers on the AIME - so I don't think it's a bad idea to write the score down.</p>

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<p>accepted, I'm not sure if you know this already, but international students cannot apply to MIT EA -- only RD.</p>

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...according to University officials, the admissions rate for international students requesting financial aid was three percent.

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I wonder what the admissions rate is for international students who do not request financial aid? I mean, it can't be a huge deal higher -- MIT's international admissions rate last year was somewhere in the vicinity of four percent, even being need-blind.</p>

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<p>thank you oasis and molliebatmit. It is certanily new to me that internationals cant apply to MIT EA. By the way, 3 percent...wow ;</p>

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<p>okay, since there's so much about stan vs mit on asians, location, gender, etc, how would an asian female new yorker stand for mit and stanford?</p>