Stanfords PR about financial Aid

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
1

<p> B O G U S </p>

<p>Okay I am steamed. :mad:</p>

<p>The point of this post is that Stanfords PR about supporting
students from families with income < 45K/60K is just PR and
not actually put into practice.</p>

<p>I felt sorry for the aid person who is sitting out there meeting with people
obviously knowing the bogus nature of the dialog. At least Stanford should
retract or qualify the aid PR to reflect reality. People like me with limited funds
will not bother applying in the first place spending applciation $s.</p>

<p>Interestingly I am one the handful of pre-approved academic RD admits.
(yes I am aware need and merit are two different things and Stanford does
not do merit).</p>

<p>...I cannot stay mad for long, so here goes the rant....</p>

<p>Our family income is way less than Stanford's previous guidelines not
to even bring up the lastest 60K income guidline. My EFC is 0 and we
have <em>no significant assets</em>. Princeton, MIT and Caltech have given me
a family contriubution expectation of 0 except Stanford.</p>

<p>Granted, I cannot compare Stanford aid to Caltech since I have been
offered a full ride merit aid there....but I can definitely compare it to
Princeton and MIT; Stanford aid just comes up Bogus. I was hoping
to not make this post but after meeting with fin aid at Stanford today I
am boiling.</p>

<p>Conversation: (disclaimer: not exactly but close)
Aid person:<a href="after%20intro%20speech%20by%20me">/b</a>. You can leave the other aid
docs with me but I can tell you that our institutional methodology is
different.
**Me: Sure, but don't I qualify under your income guidelines both past and present?
Aid Person:<a href="Sidestepping%20question">/b</a>. Stanford makes it easy for you to
take a loan if your family cannot meet the contribution.
**Me: Here is the additional information I faxed you showing how
our income is spent
Aid person: We did not use that. We ahve a different methodology.
** Me:<a href="thinking,%20so%20you%20made%20me%20collect%20receipts%20for%20a%20month,%20summarize%0Athem%20and%20fax%20the%20summary%20so%20you%20don't%20have%20to%20look%20at%20it...hmmm">/b</a>
I faxed it to you because I was told aid processing could
not proceed without it. I am still somewhat confused how all these other
institutions got their family contribution way below the Stanford number....
** Aid Person:** I can have my colleagues look into your aid and get back.
** Me: ** Okay I can drop by tommorow.
** Aid Person:** Oh no. There is a big backlog from all the others requesting aid adjustment.
We will do our best to get back by May 1st.
** Me: ** I have to decide by May 1st. How will I know my aid is getting adjusted?
** Aid Person:<a href="looking%20very%20uncomfortable">/b</a> I am not sure it is going to be adjusted. There are great
loan options.
** Me:** I am sorry if I sound rude but if you publicize that parents do not
contribute at a certain level and I am way below that level it looks like Stanford is not being honest with me.
(* Nah...I did not say the last part but it was there at the very tip of my
toungue and the aid person was blinking and avoiding eye contact *)</p>

<p>I understand I am OOS and hence not a child of California. Wow! What a
difference with Princeton where they were quite above board and MIT
where automatically the aid people do what they promise in public they
will do.</p>

<p>Curious how other low income Out-of-state applicants who have interacted
with the financial aid office have been dealt with by Stanford.</p>

<p>I wonder if the New York Times Reporter who did the piece on aid and praised
Stanford dug into specific aid packages? Low Income People like me who have choices
will just move to another choice, however those low income OOS'ers
with a single choice would really be impacted.</p>

<p>Logic says I cannot be a single case screw up by the fin aid departement and that they are doing this systematically.....?</p>

2

<p>You're right about the news being a PR thing. There are <em>lots</em> of fine prints on the 60/100k thing not included anywhere on the website.
The rules applies if and only if - you have a family of 4, you have a mortgage of ~1000/month, you have assets < a certain value (I'm not sure how much) and you have at least one OTHER child/dependent in college/grad school at this time. Other conditions may also apply that I still don't know about. etc. etc. So yeah, they still use a formula regardless of your actual income.</p>

3

<p>Do you know where we can find the fine print?</p>

4

<p>Being out of state has little to do with how Stanford's financial aid office deals with you...so I'm not clear on that part of your complaint.</p>

<p>I also found the "collecting receipts" presentation a little odd. Other than showing receipts and proof for unusual medical or other "emergency" expenses....the expenses that Stanford and other schools use when considering need are on the CSS and FAFSA forms. If your expenses are due to what might be considered luxury living (car payments on a Lexus rather than a Corolla, high mortgage due to expensive home), it's not likely the financial aid office will be sympathetic.</p>

<p>Does your family own a business, or a ranch, or property other than the home you live in? The way these assets are accounted for may be one of the issues in the calculation.</p>

<p>However, it is somewhat strange that Stanford's FA is so significantly different from Princeton's ...especially if your family income (gross wages, earnings on assets etc.) is less than $60,000 and if your family owns no other assets with the potential to earn income.</p>

5

<p>* The point though is if there be truth in advertising etc, should'nt a regulatory or some government body hold Stanford accountable for false and misleading statements?*</p>

<p>** Next year's low income applicants should probably think twice before taking up Stanford on its PR words.**</p>

<p>What is * patricularly ironic * is that I used financial aid as a leading mechanism
to whittle down my choices to 5 colleges to apply to in order to be able to afford
the application and related fees.</p>

<p>The difference between the Stanford fin aid office and Princeton is
palpable. MIT and Caltech were such gentlemen without any prompting.
What is particularly disquieting is that the kind of people a visitor
like me meets at the fin aid office - a deputed bureaucrat not one who
has authority do anything to actually help. This implies a systematic
policy in effect to delay and deny. Ooh that one must have fallen through
the cracks...;)</p>

<p>At princeton when you talk, you are put through to a person who works
your case and gets back with answers. </p>

<p>Interestingly AXESS had my parental contribution at 0 for almost 2 weeks
before the "aid award letter" said otherwise and suddenly the
numbers changed (but of course they put up a CYA warning on the page
saying things can change).</p>

<hr>

<p>Oh the OOS comment had to do with perceived yield. With stats that put people preferences
for colleges higher within the 150-300 mile radius it
stands to reason the fin aid office will be favoring CA/Oregon/WA... just
logic no hard stats.</p>

6

<p>I don't really like bashing my own school - but I certainly agree stanford needs to be more generous and open about its fin aid policies.
One thing to try though - if you do have higher offers from other HYPS caliber schools, try asking for a match. They do grant those if they really see you as a valuable applicant.</p>

7

<p>Er, if your EFC is zero and Stanford isn't adhering to its policy, then there very well may be a mistake. Really, there must be a mistake. Look at your FAFSA again, as well as your CSS profile, and make sure that there isn't something that would lead them to believe your EFC>0. Try to contact the office of financial aid and ask to speak to a higher-up person. You could even contact your regional admissions officer (they're very approachable) and ask about it; they recognize likely admits especially and will probably speak on your behalf. </p>

<p>FWIW, as a likely admit whose EFC is zero, I received a full scholarship (all I have to do is 2k/year in work-study, which I've already gotten rid of with outside scholarships). I am a CA resident, but if I weren't, I'm pretty sure that Stanford would cover the difference that the Cal Grant makes. From what I've seen, Stanford adheres to its policies, and when it doesn't, there's been a mistake along the way (perhaps not wholly Stanford's fault, either).</p>

<p>Edit:</p>

<p>
[quote]
With stats that put people preferences
for colleges higher within the 150-300 mile radius it
stands to reason the fin aid office will be favoring CA/Oregon/WA... just
logic no hard stats.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, except not logical.</p>

8

<p>Kyledavid, my FAFSA and CSS Profile were the same submitted to Princeton, MIT, Caltech and Stanford. My experience with Stanford fin aid up to this
point is that they are quite bureaucratic. </p>

<p>You do have a point about the likely admit. I was stone walled for my travel
grant until I told them I was a likely admit (along with financial need). I
will try that with regional officer instead of financial aid.</p>

<p>The reason my post says OOS is that most CA residents that I have come
to know via CC have the same reaction as yours. OOSers have a different story. </p>

<p>Disclaimer : Pure speculation.... I believe Stanford has a specific fin aid policy
for way-O-O-S which is differentiated from those who live in closer proximity
to it.</p>

9

<p>"Me: Here is the additional information I faxed you showing how
our income is spent"</p>

<p>Given the schools you were admitted to, you must be quite smart...and I hope you're not confusing "disposable income" with gross income.</p>

<p>You indicated that your family has no significant assets....which would mean no home, no business/farm/land, and probably not self employed?</p>

<p>There are many "way o-o-s" who qualify for finan. aid from Stanford. The main difference is that Stanford can use a little less of their funds for kids who have a Cal Grant. (New York also has this type of scholarship for kids who live in NY and go to college in NY...public or private.)</p>

10

<p>2boysima, Yes you are correct. (Colleges ask for monthly expenditure
details when they want to validate income- not to be confused with
line 37 of 1040)</p>

<p>Given the same Federal and CSS/Profile documents were sent
to the other schools, error and miscommunication can be safely
ruled out.</p>

<p>Interestingly MIT did not do much PR, yet I find their aid is in line
with what Stanford anounced (but does not practice). If there is
fine print, Stanford needs to make this visible for future applicants
and their parents. I would have looked at it understood the underlying
structure and decided much like I decided with A.B. Duke- okay
this is not for me for the following reasons....</p>

<p>Clarification:
I did not say I did not qualify for fin aid from Stanford. My point is that
Stanford did not keep its word about parental and family contribution
per its PR for lowest income applicants i.e. $0 family contribution +
the usual work allocation.</p>

11

<p>Line 37 of the 1040 is adjusted gross income.</p>

<p>Expenditure details are not used to validate income. They just show expenses. Unfortunately, there are many whose expenses....sometimes valid basic living expenses, and sometimes extravagant lifestyles...are above their income. And...there are some who budget well, have very high incomes, or deprive themselves of basic needs...and their expenses may be significantly less than their income.</p>

<p>Most schools using the institutional method review gross wages and gross income...and make further adjustments. They also look at certain expenses and validate for "reasonableness" given number of family members, where a family lives etc.</p>

<p>It is certainly possible that mistakes were made in calculating your FA. It is also possible that Stanford looks at certain assets and income differently than MIT and Princeton.</p>

<p>There seem to be many students and families...including some on this site...who have benefitted from the new program at Stanford. It is very unfortunate that it does not appear to be the case for you and your family.</p>