<p>Wow- I am so impressed. I really think this could be a kid who gets accepted everywhere she applies. The issue will be the money. What you would be told by the counselor at S's excellent boarding school is that you are the exception to the "limit the number of applications" rule. It will torture your D and you, but I would recommend submitting a large number of applications so that you can really pick from the financial aid packages.<br>
That said, please apply to Penn!!</p>
<p>As they say, gotta pitch the home team. Princeton. Perfect size, nice suburb with lots of lawn and trees and walks to take out by the Institute for Advanced Studies, great mol bio. Not quite so many blue-haired people as I might like but probably right up your D's alley. My D is also a potential neuroscience major....</p>
<p>And it has a woman president who is a scientist. As I understand it from reading the Daily Princetonian, girls there now feel like they have the best of all possible worlds. Strong female leadership, still majority boys as classmates:).</p>
<p>I don't know whether to say congratulations or I told you so. BTW, Princeton is known for the best finaid in the Ivies. Take a look.</p>
<p>I also thought of WUSTL first thing. It has all she is looking for, including merit aid, d3 sports, safe suburban campus, substance-free dorm option, relatively conservative-friendly, great research opportunities. With her unique bkgd and 35 ACT she will get in for sure ED, and most probably RD if they think she is truly interested.</p>
<p>Many congrats to your daughter! </p>
<p>Have you heard of DePauw University in Indiana? (Likely not...) It's a USNews top 50 liberal arts school of about 2300 students that's about 45 minutes to one hour outside Indianapolis. I'm familiar with it because it's my husband's alma mater and several other people whom I attended grad school with 20 years ago were alumni. DePauw has a long history of sending a high proportion of its grads on to post-graduate studies. Also, my daughter considered it last year (but that's another story).</p>
<p>It comes to mind for several reasons: they will give her the maximum ($15K last year) in merit money (that's what my daughter got, and she wasn't a red-hot prospect like yours), right off the bat. I believe that she would also stand a great chance of getting a Rector scholarship, which would pay at least 3/4 and potentially 100% of tuition. The Rectors are competitive, but there's a merit aid calculator on their website and it was right on the money last year. (Groan). </p>
<p>Yes, it's a teaching-oriented liberal arts school and not a research university, but it has a science honors program that carries with it some pretty special research opportunities. Here's the link---er...address: <a href="http://www.depauw.edu/honors/science/%5B/url%5D">http://www.depauw.edu/honors/science/</a> </p>
<p>It's in a little Indiana town, but the campus is gorgeous (I'm pretty sure that they have a fairly new science building and facilities), and it sounds like your daughter is not so keen for the big city anyway. Most kids are midwestern, but there are students from all over the country who attend. The only catch could be that a high percentage of the students are members of the Greek system, but my husband knew plenty of people who weren't and they were very happy. It's a Division III school and, as you know, basketball is rather popular in the state of Indiana. </p>
<p>My daughter ended up at Northwestern. She loves it, although we are all fairly bummed out by the quality of the actual teaching in freshman-level classes (that's another issue--I warned her that the profs at research schools are paid to publish, not teach. But it's ranked well and that's what we're paying for. ;) ). I understand that NU does offer excellent research opportunities for its undergrads. But it's hardly a small-school or small-town environment, if that's what your daughter really wants.</p>
<p>Good luck with your search!</p>
<p>Cur,</p>
<p>I know you are aware of this, but some schools will use the ACT in lieu of the SAT II's : Brown will accept the ACT with writing, for instance.
Did your DD take the writing part of the test? OOOHHH this is so much fun!</p>
<p>Curmie,</p>
<p>Congrats to daughter. I have nothing new to add because you have some already gotten some great suggestions. decisions, decisions. But...should she want to visit hanover, let us know.</p>
<p>I don't have much to add but congrats to Mudgette!</p>
<p>I have to second the suggestions of MIT and Duke. My S has friends there, both are well rounded, athletic, smart and good looking! I think that the Cur's are going to have fun come spring!</p>
<p>Yale. Great opps for UG, wonderful "Perspectives in Science" program for freshmen. And New Haven has come a long way.</p>
<p>D#1 will graduate this June and is sad to go. She has friends who are involved in wonderful research programs.</p>
<p>Yeah, I know it's a crapshoot, but your D has the numbers and they just love quirky kids.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"And although I'm sure you do not want to hear this, I will maintain, again, that the schools that will have the type of program in which she's interested, and that will afford her research opportunities as an undergraduate, will not be those small schools with less than 2,000 students." And many of those excellent schools with those strong programs usually require SAT II subject tests. I would really encourage her to take 3, including writing."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Jack, I realize that everyone is entitled to his or her own subjective opinions about colleges. That is why there are more than 4,000 schools and that 90% of students are accepted at their first or second choices. We all look at the same information and reach very different conclusions. When I joined this board, I never heard about the term liberal arts college -probably because I blocked everything after liberal. I remember vividly that one of my first posts "explained" to everyone who wanted to hear that state schools were wonderful and that honors program provided an unbeatable combination of costs versus quality. While you may find the position of this board toward super-selective schools and LAC to be overwhelming, it is undeniable that it is based on real life situations and personal experience. I would have been very, very happy to attend an immense state school -three of the five schools I applied to have over 50,000 students. However, there is ZERO doubt that I have MORE research opportunities at the school I currently attend, despite having an enrollment of less than 1500 students. Accordingly, your statement that the best opportunities are found at school with more than 2,000 students is easily contradicted by my accounts, as well as countless other CC students and parents. The issue is not that research universities are failing to rovide research opportunities to undergraduates, but that a great number of smaller schools provide equal if not better opportunities because of their focus to the undergraduate. Case in point: Penn's Wharton provides amazing opportunities to its students. Bern007 has shared many of his possibilities with CCers. However, several LACs easily rival with Penn on this issue. </p>
<p>
[quote]
And many of those excellent schools with those strong programs usually require SAT II subject tests. I would really encourage her to take 3, including writing."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I hate to bring this up, but your information is rather dated. The schools that require 3 Subject Tests (no longer called SATII) have become a small minority: among elite schools, while Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and MIT cling to the 3 Subject Test requirements, most schools are now requiring only TWO Subject Tests. </p>
<p>The reason behind the change is an obvious result of the cancellation of the Writing test after January 2005. Thus, it would rather impossible for a student who has not taken any SAT 2 or Subject Tests to date to take the Subject Test in Writing.</p>
<p>C-Mudge,
Congrats to your daughter! That is wonderful and she has earned those great scores. I don't have any college suggestions, but they (and maybe we) will miss her at Centre!</p>
<p>Seeing Xiggi's post made me wonder if Harvey Mudd might be worth a look. I suspect they would LOVE to get their hands on a science-minded female star like your daughter. They have incredible resources for undergraduate research (that's all they do there) and the combined resources of the Claremont Colleges consortium adds options.</p>
<p>Curmudge - DePauw's not a bad idea, it is a big music place too, DD was courted by an alumna who is a musician. It is extremely Greek, though, can't remember how she felt about that.
Since we've mentioned almost every school in the country, east of the Missisip + Stanford, what about Carleton? That's one the offspring regretted not being able to examine more closely, but no significant merit money, if I'm remembering rightly, just a little to Nat'l Merit.</p>
<p>With regard to the Claremont colleges, I'm sure that they would love to have Cur's daughter attending. However, except for Scripps, there are many schools that seem to offer better merit aid. Unless, they have some well-hidden scholarships. :)</p>
<p>Curmudge, congrats! Love following your adventures and those of your D. It will be so much fun to see where she ends up next spring. Hang in there!!</p>
<p>Cur, you lucky person! Seems the sky is the limit. Just have to figure what Cur-daughter wants. There must be something that is very important to her that can narrow it all down.</p>
<p>Listen, Xiggi, your posts don't go on deaf ears. I have sent the most brillant, gorgeous Serbian-Russian towards the Claremonts. In fact, your campus. We will see what happens. I was there the day her Dad died, ran into her in the hall crying. Her SATs are o.k., she's full IB with science emphasis, and taken care of herself since she was 11. I hope they have something well hidden.</p>
<p>xiggi: Thank you so much for your post that succinctly supports and wonderfully illustrates that "everyone is entitled to his or her own subjective opinions about colleges." And I am happy for you that your small school of less than 1,500 awards you more research opportunities than you could have possibly found elsewhere. Not so much, though, that you don't have time for posting on this forum, eh?</p>
<p>xiggi, for what it's worth, I really don't care if people want to be home-schooled for college--one on one with the teacher--makes absolutely no difference to me. And I have no special affinity for schools with 40,000+ students. I've never advocated for that, nor would my own daughter have wanted to apply to a school that large--for various reasons. But, like someone else who posted here recently, she also did not want to attend a school that had fewer students than her own high school, though she did apply to a few. To each his own. </p>
<p>My point, really, is that there is no doubt in my mind (oops..there I go with my subjective posts again) that a university with graduate programs and faculty who bring in large research grants, access to big university labs, etc., will generally have many more research opportunities for undergraduates than very small LAC's. In fact, many of large grants have line items on their budgets, specifically for undergraduates. And while a small school certainly will have its share of research grants, a larger university with graduate programs, and especially connected to a teaching hospital, will generally have many more research opportunities for its undergraduates. I have never stated that it had to be a university with 50,000 students. (I even suggested in my post, I believe, schools like Duke, Wake Forest, Emory. Not 1500 students, but not overwhelmingly large universities, either, though all with great pre-med programs connected to medical schools). And I will also add that if a very small LAC does have incredible cutting edge research opportunities for its undergraduates (and that includes freshmen), my guess is, that a school like that is very near to a larger university, a teaching hospital, industry, or research labs somewhere (not directly connected to its school). Where do you attend school, by the way?</p>
<p>As far as the SAT II; I believe they can either be referred to as the SAT II Subject Tests, or simply the SAT II's. Although I don't know why I should have to explain myself to you, the reason I mention the "outdated" requirement for these tests is (1) people here are rightfully suggesting that perhaps the OP's daughter look at some of the Ivy's, including some of those you mention: Harvard, Princeton. As such, she will need to take those. (2) I had forgotten that the new SAT has its own writing requirement, so that would most likely make the SAT II (oops--Subject Test for writing--) unnecessary; however, as others have pointed out, many colleges will not be considering the writing portion this year, since it's so new. In addition, the OP's daughter has not taken (correct me if I'm wrong) the new SAT, so taking the SAT II (oops--Subject Test) if it's still available, might be a good idea. (3) Of some of the schools that were mentioned as possibilities (non-Ivys), many still do require those tests--as least they did as early as last year. Maybe they've discontinued them. (4) I also mentioned taking them, regardless of whether they are required or not, because this particular person is looking for merit, and doing well on the SAT II (oops--Subject Tests), which I'm sure this student would do, simply gives an admissions committee additional information and allows them to see that this person really does know the subject(s). (5) And do forgive me by suggesting that some of these schools required 3. I'm not going to go back and look at my original post, but I thought I said.."that number may vary." Perhaps I didn't. </p>
<p>I have no problem with liberal arts colleges or super selective schools, xiggi. My daughter applied to several, was accepted to them, and offered merit scholarships at two. </p>
<p>Again, thank you so much for your concern about how outdated I am, xiggi. I will add that, somehow, I am not at all surprised by your comment regarding the term, liberal arts colleges, that you "blocked everything after liberal." Not surprised at all. What college did you say you attended, by the way?</p>
<p>xiggi: Thank you so much for your post that succinctly supports and wonderfully illustrates that "everyone is entitled to his or her own subjective opinions about colleges." And I am happy for you that your small school of less than 1,500 awards you more research opportunities than you could have possibly found elsewhere. Not so much, though, that you don't have time for posting on this forum, eh?</p>
<p>xiggi, for what it's worth, I really don't care if people want to be home-schooled for college--one on one with the teacher--makes absolutely no difference to me. And I have no special affinity for schools with 40,000+ students. I've never advocated for that, nor would my own daughter have wanted to apply to a school that large--for various reasons. But, like someone else who posted here recently, she also did not want to attend a school that had fewer students than her own high school, though she did apply to a few. Obviously, to each his own. </p>
<p>My point, really, is that there is no doubt in my mind (oops..there I go again with my subjective posts) that a university with graduate programs and faculty who bring in large research grants, access to big university labs, etc., will generally have many more research opportunities for undergraduates than very small LAC's. For heaven's sake, there will simply be more research grants. More faculty, larger departments generally bring in more grants. Is that subjective? In fact, many of large grants have line items on their budgets, specifically for undergraduates. And while a small school certainly will have its share of research grants, a larger university with graduate programs, and especially connected to a teaching hospital, will generally have many more research opportunities for its students. I have never stated that it had to be a university with 50,000 students. (I even suggested in my post, I believe, schools like Duke, Wake Forest, Emory. Not 1500 students, but not overwhelmingly large universities, either, though all with great pre-med programs connected to medical schools). And I will also add that if a very small LAC does have incredible cutting edge research opportunities for its undergraduates (and that includes freshmen), my guess is, that a school like that is very near to a larger university, a teaching hospital, industry, or research labs somewhere (not directly connected to its school). Where do you attend school, by the way?</p>
<p>As far as the SAT II; I believe they can either be referred to as the SAT II Subject Tests, or simply the SAT II's. Although I don't know why I should have to explain myself to you, the reason I mention the "outdated" requirement for these tests is (1) people here are rightfully suggesting that perhaps the OP's daughter look at some of the Ivy's, including some of those you mention: Harvard, Princeton. As such, she will need to take those. (2) I had forgotten that the new SAT has its own writing requirement, so that would most likely make the SAT II (oops--Subject Test for writing--) unnecessary; however, as others have pointed out, many colleges will not be considering the writing portion this year, since it's so new. In addition, the OP's daughter has not taken (correct me if I'm wrong) the new SAT, so taking the SAT II (oops--Subject Test) if it's still available, might be a good idea. (3) Of some of the schools that were mentioned as possibilities (non-Ivys), many still do require those tests--as least they did as early as last year. Maybe they've discontinued them. (4) I also mentioned taking them, regardless of whether they are required or not, because this particular person is looking for merit, and doing well on the SAT II (oops--Subject Tests), which I'm sure this student would do, simply gives an admissions committee additional information and allows them to see that this person really does know the subject(s). (5) And do forgive me by suggesting that some of these schools required 3. I'm not going to go back and look at my original post, but I thought I said.."that number may vary." Perhaps I didn't. </p>
<p>I have no problem with liberal arts colleges or super selective schools, xiggi. My daughter applied to several, was accepted to them, and offered merit scholarships at two. </p>
<p>Again, thank you so much for your concern about how outdated I am, xiggi. I will add that, somehow, I am not at all surprised by your comment regarding the term, liberal arts colleges, that you initially "blocked everything after liberal." Not surprised at all. What college did you say you attended, by the way?</p>
<p>JHU might be worth consideration. The chances for admission and a full scholarship are much better than for the ivies, but JHU is by no means second rate for biology/pre-med and research. I don't know what a D3 is so I can't comment. UG size is only about 5k but the total enrollment is closer to 15k.</p>
<p>Little thin-skinned, there Jack? Xiggi was disagreeing with your comment, didn't really see it as a personal attack. I don't necessarily agree with Xiggi on everything (on this point I do) and he has certainly disagreed with some of my posts, but c'mon.</p>
<p>Case migth be another school to consider. Great with Merit Aid, Division 3 sports, can take classes at Cleveland Institute of Music, would most likely be accepted into this program from Case website:</p>
<p>Medical School
PPSP offers students the opportunity to apply for admission to the Case School of Medicine in conjunction with their application to the freshman class. Students selected as Pre-Professional Scholars in medicine complete bachelors degrees before beginning their professional studies; PPSP is not designated as an accelerated entrance to medical school. The average PPSP candidate for the Case School of Medicine will have ranked in the top 10 percent of his or her senior class and have an average SAT composite score of 1410-1510 or an average ACT composite score of 30-34. Retention of PPSP medical students has traditionally been above 90 percent. While the MCAT is not required for PPSP students, Pre-Professional Scholars who choose to take it must present a total score of 32 or above.</p>
<p>I think online application is free too! Congrats and good luck..</p>