<p>Curmudgeon, all of those southern schools you mentioned are awesome, but USC's programs are really stellar. The honors college is very small and honestly the student body isn't really all that big. I walk the campus all the time and am constantly bumping into people I know.
Just something to consider.</p>
<p>The PENN State Shreyers Program the poster mentioned is more competetive to get into than the top IVYs. The requirements for admissions go beyond the excellent stats that are the minimum requirement. We visited the Univ. of Delaware Honors Program and found it to be impressive. They offer half tuition scholarships to out of state kids who meet the merit standards. 14% of the student body is in Honors and their stats look about the same as you would see at a PENN type school. I hear Maryland also has a well regarded Honors Program--- as does Pitt, BU, and many others. Good luck.</p>
<p>Engineering is a major where I still think larger U's have more advantages for most but not necessarily all students. I suppose, like everything else, it depends on which student with what interests at which school before you can fairly evaluate.</p>
<p>dogs: I was accepted to The Penn State Schreyer Honors College and will most likely end up going there for financial reasons. I have met students there at an overnight and I can tell you that most are very smart, but certainly not HYP smart if you were implying that. The school has a SAT 25-75 more like CMU, Northwestern or JHU than Harvard.</p>
<p>No doubt it's a well done program, but you still take about 3/4 of your classes with other, regular penn state students.</p>
<p>Does anybody have an opinion of Schreyer Honors College at Penn State or Pitt Honors College? They do seem to offer some nice advantages like small classes, priority registration, honors dorms and research and study abroad opportunities. My son is seriously considering these, among others, as an affordable alternative to CMU for engineering, as they are in-state for us.</p>
<p>(OOPS! I didn't see the last page of posts...sorry!)</p>
<p>At Barksdale HC at Mississippi, the average SAT is 1360 (I think, maybe 1380). While I agree, that's not top 10, it does mean that the classes ought to be able to move along quite "smartly", I'd bet.</p>
<p>I have been a longtime lurker. My D has benefited from the wisdom of many parents on this board. Curmug could probably be my husbands nice twin. Having said this - My D applied to 2 safety 2 match and 2 reach schools this year. She was accepted to all. Her reach schools and one match are on the CC list of top schools but not ivy. (Nothing could persuade my D to apply ivy - her guidance counselor tried.) Having said this, she will probably go to Clemson Honors this fall. We have a long family history of Orange in our house. My daughter was heavily recruited there and has an almost free ride. Our situation is such that the top schools would cost the full 160K (most of it expected to come from our house). We just don't see the rationale for that. </p>
<p>The honors college at Clemson only takes about 10% of the incoming class or about 250 each year. Most of these receive scholarships which come also waive OOS tuition. Clemson is 65% SC and declining. It is a great school. Having said that, GA honors was also considered in our house. The UGA is higher ranked than Clemson and their honors program is stellar. Our daughter has chosen Clemson due to the family history. We have not finalized our decistion, D is still thinking about the highest ranked school she got into but only in a what if kind of way.</p>
<p>Our D (sciences major) never considered USC (SC). Its reputation for academics is weak compared to Clemson unless you are interested in international business.</p>
<p>are you joking "dogs"? because what you claim is just totally completely wrong. From my highschool class of 300 last year, I can think of at least 10 people who got in to PSU hon. I am the only 'leaguer. Someone I knew from highschool in the program told me that it was easier than highschool was...It may be a good program, but there is no way it is as competitive as ivy admission.</p>
<p>I did not say the admission to UGA or Clemson honors was as competitive as ivy league although the top Foundation Fellows awards at UGA is as competitive as ivy admissions, and the Clemson National Scholars award are also received by ivy competitive students who are then forced to make the choice. I read about Vig180 on this board making just such a hard choice this year.</p>
<p>Admission to the Clemson or UGA honors college requires (according to their stats (Clemson honors -1385 avg and 3.8, UGA 1438 avg and 4.05)</p>
<p>ghbrown08 - sorry for my response - when you said "dogs" I thought you meant Dawgs - UGA.</p>
<p>Does anyone have experience and opinions about the University of Iowa honors program?</p>
<p>Interesting thread. I'm a student considering UCONN's Honors Program and Carnegie Mellon (Mellon College of Science) for a biology major. Does anyone know anything about either school's program and how their sciences compare? I've heard great things about UCONN's science program in general and some people have told me that CMU is more of a technology school without a strong natural science background. Is anyone familiar with these schools' programs?</p>
<p>I don't know for sure, but I get the impression that there is alot more emphasis on engineering and computer science at cmu than bio/chem/physics. But, even if smaller programs, the pure sciences might still be good. Anybody have personal experience? I'd like to know also.</p>
<p>Penn State Honors Engineering @ $20,000 vs. CMU Engineering @ $40,000. Hmmm.......</p>
<p>State school honors programs can be either awesome or horrible. A visit will definitely be helpful in determining the quality of each program. </p>
<p>Here's a quick recap of the southern honors colleges/programs that I spent a long time looking at and visited:</p>
<p>U of Arkansas
Up-and-coming program that is determined to attract more out of state student. Offers a whopping seventy five full ride plus scholarships. Has an honors dorm, an honors program in each major college and a seperate honors college that offers a decent selection of courses. Recent WalMart donation has honors college with more money than they know what to do with. </p>
<p>U of Alabama
Definitely one of the most sophisticated honors programs I saw; computer-based honors program is heavy on research and computer skills, int'l honors program is self explanatory, the university honors program is decent, and the Blount living-learning program offers an attractice option to arts and sciences majors. Near full ride with laptop to any NMF, a very few additional scholarships that can end being quite profitable. </p>
<p>U of Florida
Big. Huge university, huge honors program. Near full ride for NMF brings in a lot of people. Not much to the honors program after the first two years though. A nice honors dorm, but expensive.</p>
<p>U of Georgia
One of the oldest and most prestigious honors programs in the nation, UGA has most number of honors-level courses to choose from. Many honors classes go well beyond the introductory level up into the three hundred and four hundred levels. Special research oppertunities for undergraduate research, an honors dorm, honors mentoring, and a large honors staff help make this one of the best honors programs in the nation. Two major scholarships give either full tuition and part of board or an incredible full ride with many, many extras. [where I will be attending next year]</p>
<p>University of Oklahoma
Big and impressive with a brand new building, but don't be fooled; the national merit finalists live in one of the large towers, not the dorm. People there seemed unenthusiastic and the academic quality in nonscience areas definitely seemed to be lacking. Not very indepth and devoid of much personal contact with professors. </p>
<p>U of Tennessee
Two visits to meet with honors program people didn't result in one letter, postcard, e-mail, or phone call. Nice people, but very rudimentary program lacked depth. Did not seem to be very well-regarded on campus. Despite being in my home state, I decided not to even apply. Lots of scholarships for instaters though.</p>
<p>Edit: Orangemom, Thanks for mentioning UGA! UGA's Foundation Fellows program is definitely on the level of the most competitive Ivies as the average SAT of the 68 interviewing students this year was 1515 and the GPA was 4.15. Of those, only 22 got the scholarship so while the competition is definitely fierce, the quality of the program is superb.</p>
<p>vig180
My D applied to FF but was not selected. She was selected for honors college and OOS waiver ( a great deal). We were very impressed with the FF and honors program. If it were me I would have chosen UGA but my D picked our smaller home State school.</p>
<p>Well, orangemom, as a SCer myself, I have to defend USC. USC's Honors College is higher ranked and has higher admit stats (SAT etc..) than Clemson and is more highly regarded.</p>
<p>You are right about engineering and some pure sciences at Clemson being better than USC, but USC is not nearly as easy to get into as it used to be but will probably always be lower ranked than Clemson because it is where all of the "average" SCers go. Clemson is just too far out because so many Columbia kids want to live at home, so Clemson is not considered as an option. USC's academics are not however "weak". In fact in certain engineering fields, USC is actually ranked above Clemson, although Clemson's overall program is clearly better.</p>
<p>curmudgeon - Well, I'm not islandmom, but I'll give my two-cents' worth on Plan II. It was my daughter's very close 2nd choice - close enough that she couldn't bring herself to apply ED to her 1st choice, Rice. (She ended up at Rice after applying ID.) When we visited, we were impressed by the small size (700 total?) and the personal attention we got. The list of Plan II seminars offered that semester was also very impressive. We enjoyed the atmosphere in the Plan II office; clearly you could drop in and see one of the dedicated advisors at a moment's notice. This is an honors college that grants its own degrees, I guess; if you are a Plan II student, your major is Plan II, and you are getting a degree in liberal arts and sciences. I think the majority of their students take a second major, though. Unfortunately, I don't remember the details of what your course list for the whole four years would look like, and whether it would be possible to do just the Plan II major and take nothing but Plan II seminars! I also don't know what all the perks are; honors housing is available, but I don't know if it's guaranteed, and acceptance certainly does not come with a free ride. There are special Plan II outings and social events, a Plan II newsletter, a Plan II literary journal, etc. What D liked most was the sense that she'd have a community of like-minded peers. She had a blast in her Theory of Knowledge class during her senior year, and she felt that the Plan II community would be her TOK-like home at UT.</p>
<p>But she chose Rice and loves it there. I second the suggestion of Rice for the would-be engineer who wants a school with strength in other areas as well.</p>
<p>PSU SHREYERS Honors is not just about stats although their stats are certainly in the range of most top schools. If you look at the application questions and essays needed you will see that it is is looking at "depth" not only "breath" of scholarly traits. So it goes beyond the required numbers and asks questions that you don't see on any other applications.The couple that endows it are very committed and there are many students there who turned down Ivys and the like, same as the other Honors Program described on this thread. Since this thead is about the merits of state Honors Programs I am comfortable pointing that out. From what I know the studemts live in a beautiful dform in one of the best location at PSU.The person on this board that was accepted there deserves congrats as do the other fine Honors state school candidates. As i mentioned earlier I also hear great things about Delaware and Maryland Honors Programs.</p>
<p>One more thing about the statement about USC, possibly a little bit more specific than needed.</p>
<p>I'm pretty set on majoring in chemistry, and I can tell you that Clemson's chemistry department is significantly weaker than that of USC. By significantly weaker I'm talking about 1/3 the amount of funding USC's department has.</p>
<p>I'm always hearing one or the other has the better biology/pre-med program, but I do know that USC has great connected with the USC Med School and also MUSC in Charleston (a highly ranked med school). </p>
<p>So if you are talking about Applied Science, Clemson definitely does have some better engineering programs, but, if you are talking about Physical/Natural Sciences, I'm going with USC.</p>