Staying at the same University for undergrad and grad school? (Math)

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>So right now I'm an undergrad who is considering getting my Masters and PhD in math. However, I had one question. If someone wants to work in Academia, is it "bad" to get all three degrees from the same place? Where I'm currently studying, some of the professors in the math department (received all three degrees from the same college), but they have been here for 30 years.</p>

<p>The reason I'm asking is this; I've gotten to know some of the professors in the Math department, and their research really interests me. We've had conversations about their research, going through their publications, etc. I have also gotten to know the PhD/Masters coordinator on a personal level, and by the time I graduate, he will have known me for four years (I was in a couple of classes of his and we kept in touch after), and I will have hopefully worked on a research project with him by the time I graduate (he is also the adviser of an REU program). </p>

<p>I have also gotten to know another professor since he is the adviser of a club I've been the President of, so I will have worked with him for four years as well.</p>

<p>I honestly really want to stay here for many reasons, like the ones I listed above, so is that acceptable?</p>

<p>Basically it is your decision to make. As an advisor, I don’t recommend it to my students though. There are several reasons for this</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I think it is important to see different universities whenever possible. Staying in one place won’t allow you to experience different environments. Who says that you won’t find anyone you want to do research with at a new school?</p></li>
<li><p>The transition is too easy. When a student stays at the same school, there is a tendency to continue with the habits of an undergraduate. I feel it is better to have clean break and go to a program where you will be challenged and even a bit worried about success.</p></li>
<li><p>This is not necessarily the case, as I do not know where you are going to university now, but having a department with faculty who have been there since undergraduate days is usually a bad sign for reputation. The best people go where they find the best position. Of course you see some faculty members who are back at the place where they did their Ph.D. but if it is a highly selective program, usually it is because they were lured back after having a stellar career elsewhere. As a faculty member, I like to see my undergraduates go and do us proud at a better graduate program and the same with my Ph.D. advisees.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>There are good reasons and bad reasons to stay where you are. This is also field dependent.</p>

<p>In my field, staying in the same place for the BA and PhD can be okay if 1) the department is a strong one - no one will question why you decided to stay in a top 20-30 program; 2) if there are clear research interest connections - you and your adviser do basically the same research, or there are 3-4 professors in a cluster that do work very similar to yours; 3) you are very productive: you publish a lot, you present at conferences, you’re involved in the field, and 4) you seek out other ways to develop a diverse set of experiences and approaches, such as taking coursework at other universities or doing special summer training elsewhere, or a postdoc. No one would question a Michigan or Stanford undergrad for staying in their own department, for example. It’d actually be silly to go elsewhere just because.</p>

<p>However, BAD reasons to stay put are 1) you’re comfortable - you know everyone and they know you; 2) it’s easier - you don’t really have to learn to navigate a new department or new approaches; 3) you’re stuck in a rut - you just want to keep doing the same old research and not learn anything new or expand your horizons; and/or 4) you’re unable to get in anywhere else (or didn’t even try). Also, if you don’t do the things listed above, you also diminish your chances of getting a job. For example, let’s say you were an undergrad at Stanford (currently ranked #1-2 in my field) and you stay there for a PhD - but there’s NO ONE in your interest area and your publication record is spotty and schizophrenic, and you can’t talk cohensively about your research agenda in job talks. THAT looks bad, and it doesn’t matter that Stanford is #1 in the field.</p>

<p>SO - examine your reasons. The fact that you have gotten to know professors in your department, including the club adviser and the graduate program coordinator is irrelevant. That’s normal when you are somewhere for 4 years - in some ways, some would argue that it could be a disadvantage, as the department may have trouble seeing you as a grad student instead of an undergrad. But more importantly, you will get to know and love the professors in your grad department, too. There are also people with interesting and relevant research at a lot of places, and you can have conversations with lots of people about publications and research. Those things are NOT unique to your undergrad. What’s MORE important are:</p>

<p>1) Is your department well-reputed in your field? Do they have a good placement rate in academia? Do people get jobs as professors from that department, and do they get jobs at the kinds of institutions at which you see yourself working?
2) Are your professors’ research interests WELL-aligned with your own, to the extent that you can’t really get as good a fit anywhere else in the field?
3) Are they good mentors? Have they expressed an interest to take you on as a graduate student and develop you? Are they trying to push you out to go somewhere else, or do they really want to keep you?</p>

<p>I also agree that in many cases, a department that is filled with people who have gone to undergrad there, gotten their PhD there, and been there for very very long times is a bad sign. It’s sometimes a sign that the department is not open to new ideas and does not want to grow and change with the times. Not only should programs be sending their scholars out into the world, the best departments will seek out good faculty from a variety of departments and backgrounds because diversity of voices is a good thing in science. If 50%+ are all from the same place, you can get some staleness in there.</p>

<p>This has been a real interesting discussion for me. Thank you everyone for your comments.
I have been told that unis try to avoid ‘inbreeding’ so you’d have better luck if you change unis.
Good luck with your search.</p>

<p>Perhaps you should ask the very people you could have worked with if you stayed at your undergrad for some advice pertaining to institutions where you could apply and do similar research.</p>

<p>If you do well on the MGRE, have good grades in upper-level (perhaps even graduate) coursework, and were productive in research (by undergraduate standards), then you can do PhD directly elsewhere.</p>